Religion: Is it cool?

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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby Triflusal » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:12 pm

jsun3thousand wrote:but how long will it take to make those discoveries the next time? will those discoveries even be made again? will anybody care or have the time, means, and energy to even investigate such matters?

conservatively, modern humans have been around for at least 50,000 years. the current understanding of sperm penetrating an egg as necessary for reproduction didn't occur until 159 years ago. that means for ~.998% of human existence, the commonly held beliefs and truths about how reproduction occurred were wrong. even how we got to our current understanding is an interesting journey... http://www.seductionlabs.org/2007/04/02 ... -of-sperm/ it didn't occur because of some magical unfurling of knowledge or the positive, linear progress of science.

for penn to say that "somebody would figure it all out again" is as just as dogmatic a view of science, objectivity and Truth as any dogmatic religious belief.

if anybody wants to waste 19:35 minutes of their life, watch penn's atheist guide to the 2012 election. all he does is tell you about a book he read and then goes on and on about how dumb and crazy religious people are. his use of stats on religion is skeptical at best. i'm an atheist and not a fan of organized religion. however, penn's understanding of why people believe in religion is childish and pedestrian. it's people like him that make atheists one of the most distrusted groups in america. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archi ... ts/250005/
while he doesn't believe in god, his belief that he is objective and correct is no different than any religious belief.



are you objective and correct in your atheism?
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby jsun3thousand » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:44 pm

i'm not objective. how i view, understand, and interact with the world is based on my life history, gender, race, sexuality, social class, education, nationality, etc, etc set within a specific sociohistorical context.

i became an atheist for several reasons. neither of my parents were very religious. despite my mother's lack of religious conviction, she forced me to go to catholic school to receive my first communion and be confirmed to make my grandmother happy. i was also sent to christian bible camp in the summer because my aunt is very religious. the conflicting messages i was receiving led to the origin of my skepticism of religion and god. i was around ten years old when i began questioning the existence of god. my life history primed me to easily to reject the idea of god based on a lack of evidence and all the contradictions i was taught. if i had been raised in a family that taught me a singular vision of god and embedded me in a supportive religious community that could answer my questions, i would not be the same person i am today.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby veganray » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:39 am

I lost my virginity at Methodist bible camp. That place was like Bangkok.
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby Triflusal » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:00 am

jsun3thousand wrote:i'm not objective. how i view, understand, and interact with the world is based on my life history, gender, race, sexuality, social class, education, nationality, etc, etc set within a specific sociohistorical context.

i became an atheist for several reasons. neither of my parents were very religious. despite my mother's lack of religious conviction, she forced me to go to catholic school to receive my first communion and be confirmed to make my grandmother happy. i was also sent to christian bible camp in the summer because my aunt is very religious. the conflicting messages i was receiving led to the origin of my skepticism of religion and god. i was around ten years old when i began questioning the existence of god. my life history primed me to easily to reject the idea of god based on a lack of evidence and all the contradictions i was taught. if i had been raised in a family that taught me a singular vision of god and embedded me in a supportive religious community that could answer my questions, i would not be the same person i am today.

if your (and everyone elses) view is subjective, is their any way you can criticize other views for being wrong? aren't those views just as valid because they result from the same criteria that your worldview is from? earlier you wrote this:
jsun3thousand wrote:while he [penn jillette] doesn't believe in god, his belief that he is objective and correct is no different than any religious belief.

penn jillette believes he is right. a christian or muslim or whatever believes they are right. why are you "right" in that nobody is right? what is the correct way to believe in something?
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby veganray » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:01 am

Triflusal wrote:what is the correct way to believe in something?

silently
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby martinb » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:28 am

veganray wrote:
Triflusal wrote:what is the correct way to believe in something?

silently


the correct answer :|
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby vonDrehle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:39 am

BS. I refuse to believe silently. I will still be going on my big food hunts every weekend and spreading the word about big foot.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby veganray » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:16 pm

vonDrehle wrote:I will still be going on my big food hunts every weekend

the mother of all Freudian slips
Ryen91 wrote:I am pretty sure I am more intelligent then you think and have allot more knowledge then your post might suggest.


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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby vonDrehle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:54 pm

I twas hungry :D
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby jsun3thousand » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:06 pm

Triflusal wrote:
jsun3thousand wrote:i'm not objective. how i view, understand, and interact with the world is based on my life history, gender, race, sexuality, social class, education, nationality, etc, etc set within a specific sociohistorical context.

i became an atheist for several reasons. neither of my parents were very religious. despite my mother's lack of religious conviction, she forced me to go to catholic school to receive my first communion and be confirmed to make my grandmother happy. i was also sent to christian bible camp in the summer because my aunt is very religious. the conflicting messages i was receiving led to the origin of my skepticism of religion and god. i was around ten years old when i began questioning the existence of god. my life history primed me to easily to reject the idea of god based on a lack of evidence and all the contradictions i was taught. if i had been raised in a family that taught me a singular vision of god and embedded me in a supportive religious community that could answer my questions, i would not be the same person i am today.

if your (and everyone elses) view is subjective, is their any way you can criticize other views for being wrong? aren't those views just as valid because they result from the same criteria that your worldview is from? earlier you wrote this:
jsun3thousand wrote:while he [penn jillette] doesn't believe in god, his belief that he is objective and correct is no different than any religious belief.

penn jillette believes he is right. a christian or muslim or whatever believes they are right. why are you "right" in that nobody is right? what is the correct way to believe in something?


religious beliefs cannot be proven correct or incorrect because there is no empirical evidence that can lead to establishment of specific creator.

there is a difference between being subjective and being incorrect. humans are material, biological beings that live in a real material world and we make our subjective claims with evidence. without evidence you can't make a truth claim worth any merit. it's easy to prove that drinking cyanide will not make you stronger or that mercury will not cure syphilis. the world becomes messy when people try to make truth claims without evidence, like penn and ayn ryand society make about the reality of their objectivity. there is no evidence to demonstrate that claim, it is a dogmatic belief. you have to balance your argument with evidence. how truth claims should be made is truth using a established methodology to gather data, analyzing on your data properly, than you make an argument about your data. arguments are usually made to show the weakness of existing ideas, add to a current idea, or to make an new claim.

how we come to accept our current, contextual truths is based on who has the social power to control the definition of situation. michel foucault uses the term "regimes of truth" to describe how contextual truths are established. a truth regime is the "historically specific mechanisms which produce discourses which function as true in particular times and places."

even though humans are subjective, it doesn't mean anything goes. there are widely accepted rules about science. we have been reigning our subjectivity over the last 100 years or so by allowing disfranchised voices in on the debate. will the current regime of truths stand forever, probably not. nobody can predict the future. power and knowledge are intimately linked.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby Working Stiff » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:01 pm

NewScientist this week is "The God Issue." I was going to read it tonight, but I got busy.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby Fritz » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:13 pm

veganray wrote:I lost my virginity at Methodist bible camp. That place was like Bangkok.


lulz!
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby Energetic » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:14 pm

Fritz wrote:
veganray wrote:I lost my virginity at Methodist bible camp. That place was like Bangkok.


lulz!


reminds me about that pedophile scandal in european catholic world.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby jubuttib » Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:12 pm

Energetic wrote:
Fritz wrote:
veganray wrote:I lost my virginity at Methodist bible camp. That place was like Bangkok.


lulz!
reminds me about that pedophile scandal in european catholic world.
Oh, it's global. The two countries that have staged nationwide inquiries are Ireland and the US.
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Re: Religion: Is it cool?

Postby JR » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:32 am

The catholics have a lot to answer for. Crusades, inquisition, pedophilia. Where does it end? Oh yeah don't forget about the nazi smuggling network that got war criminals out of Europe to mostly southern America after WW2. Pretty serious shit. It is sad that many other religious groups have not taken notice and cleaned up their own nest by seeing what the catholics have done. Islamists are counter crusading in their opinion or practicing earthly politics under the banner of religion just like Bush W tried to preach and the catholic church sanctioned at first during the real crusades then actively pursued that policy after noticing how fools flocked to the crusades smelling a chance to claim back the holy land. I saw a TV program that said that initially the crusades were local rulers directing the folk away from real domestic troubles upheld by the rulers. In fact at times the crusades bit back the earthly rulers who started them. At times they did not think that the crusades would happen so they were not prepared when they did. And when the people flocked in ready to go the rulers could not refuse from leaving to crusade because that would show them to be blasphemers and that would likely result in kindling fires. Underneath the rulers :-) As a result some crusades left without provisions to even get to the holy land. Suckers. Oh yeah what does that make of the Americans liking the policies of Bush W "on a crusade". He even missed the country or let me think where was the holy land? Iraq? Afghanistan? Where is the bonfire with the blasphemer on it? Leading people by the nose?
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