RHBH Critique Please -- Nose-up/Air Bounce Issues

[JR]

Then you may like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSZyYAVPbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2FKSiZPHWE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMOavzoB ... ature=plcp

[K-Rob]

Thanks JR and Seabas again....

Went out to the course yesterday, and noticed some definite improvements. But, just like when you plug one leak in the plumbing, it only puts pressure on any others.

Here are a few videos from the round. My first key learning: I need to look at my video during the round. Right after I started looking at these yesterday I realized i was still reaching back way too high, and I was griplocking a ton.

Here's a shot where I grip lock and reachback really high. So I end up firing my disc into the trees about 20 feet away.



Then I start getting some elbow chop and the air bounce impact is lessened...



My reachback is still real high, and my wrist isn't quite neutral, but I got this drive to about 250ft on closed shoulder. Felt like I got a good rip.



This was towards the end of the round. I didn't realize it when I walked up to the tee, but they changed pin positions last night. So I put my Avenger back and grab a KC roc. This throw was arguably my best in the round in terms of line-drive flight path, good elbow chop feel and level disc release. Still reaching back too high, and my aim was significantly to the right. I was about 40-feet off to the right (griplock again?). But, I nailed the distance. If i was anywhere near the pin, it would have been parked.

One thing I'm notice is that i appear to have the mechanics of my throw out of sync. I feel like it shows in these videos too. I think I'm firing my my hips first and then my shoulders, with my arm being pulled in line by the rotation of my torso. I think this is keeping my arm back too long and forcing my shoulders to open too early. Is this correct?

Looking forward to your guys' feedback. Also, you can view these in slo-mo by signing up for YouTube's html5 trial. This blog explains it in 3 steps: http://www.ehow.com/how_8550794_watch-y ... otion.html.

[seabas22]

You are over-heaving the backswing and losing balance/posture end up leaning back at the hit.

[mark12b]

One thing I'm notice is that i appear to have the mechanics of my throw out of sync. I feel like it shows in these videos too. I think I'm firing my my hips first and then my shoulders, with my arm being pulled in line by the rotation of my torso. I think this is keeping my arm back too long and forcing my shoulders to open too early. Is this correct?

Hips then shoulders is ok, but if you don't get the elbow forward soon enough, the arm gets wrapped around the body. Try using a bent-elbow reachback, so that the elbow is already forward when the shoulders come around and point at the target.

You want to throw the momentum of the disc like throwing a hammer or stick or your bat toward the target. Don't worry about spinning the bat, just throw it as far as you can and it will spin.

I was watching the the Hellyer KC Roc 170 video thinking the same thing. You're getting rotational power like hitting a baseball, but what you want is to throw the bat itself (the forearm, in this case) instead. Thinking about that, you'd really want the bat out in front of the body before you fling it. Same thing with the forearm/disc unit -- which is where the elbow-forward position comes in.

[JR]

Use the search with the term pause. It is something that you lack a bit and it will explain some things. That will answer at least some of your mechanics issues. The grip locked drive isn't necessarily reaching back too high. People differ in which height to pull the arm. Many get better results with lower pull heights than the traditional shoulder high line. That throw went wrong only when you started to lower the arm. Had the arm stayed at a correct height it would have been better although it wouldn't have stopped the grip lock. Regarding that the elbow forward will help but you need to loosen up big time in the arm early on and only put on the gas late in the throw to avoid grip locks. Once you're accustomed to the explosive acceleration of the arm you should explore where to accelerate the arm the hardest for best distance.

All that is nice and well but it still amounts to little regarding keeping the nose down if you won't wrestle the wrist down with great force after the elbow starts to straighten the arm. There the inevitable stiffening of the muscles is desireable. If it doesn't happen you aren't accelerating fast enough and certainly aren't getting the wrist well down. Well down meaning front of the disc below the rear. That is not an absolute requirement for good scores. It helps in throwing higher for maximum distance but with modern discs one can eventually throw competitively far enough on low lines with the front and rear of the disc at equal height from the ground. So it ain't absolutely necessary. For long term improvement as a player it doesn't hurt to develop the flexibility and forearm power to do that. As long as you don't overdo it and get tendonitis or something like that.

The leg placement is for a steep anny were you trying to do that?

[K-Rob]

@ Seabas ... the second video you put down will help a ton. I'm on my way to the course now and will get more vids up today.

@ Mark12b ... thanks for jumping in. The feedback about changing from rotation power to linear power until the last moment makes sense. Will try that today.

@ JR ... again, amazing feedback. Looking up the term pause now before I hit the course. So, you're saying don't grip it like hell the whole way through? When I first started, a buddy of mine said he just grips the living snot out of the rim and flicks forward. Anyway, I think that's how it got ingrained. As far as the anny angle, I was trying to keep my shoulder in that day, so I was working on Bradley Walker's closed shoulder drill.

Be back later w/ more videos.

[JR]

Crushing the disc in the grip hard from the get go will limit distance because the arm muscles will move slower. That drops the disc exit speed too. With that said there are people that crush with moderately hard grips from the get go but with excess power you can compensate. Not everyone can do that and i wonder how much farther these athletes would throw starting very loose and pinching the thumb and the index finger possibly the middle finger too after the elbow starts to straighten. The difference between a full force grip from the beginning and a loose first two thirds of the throw and a good pinch late is easy to notice. The looser muscles will produce a certain difference in explosiveness of the acceleration. That should not be too hard to feel physically in the arm and possibly even in the pressure of the disc against the fingers as the disc rips out.

[K-Rob]

Thanks JR. I need to get that "grip it all the time" out of my head. It's bad enough I'm throwing like a baseball swing, leading to severe nose up and leading to me being unable to rotate my wrist down at hit.

Anyway...here are the most recent videos. This whole day was really up and down. These two in particular were somewhat down. Low D. Weight was back. Still over-heaving the reachback. I think I was trying to do to much on this day. I wanted everything from this thread to come together instead of focusing on a couple of key things.



This vid has a great shot of how far open my shoulders go before the disc leaves my hand at 8 seconds in, which is what I think makes it so hard to keep my wrist down.

So I took your advice and went all the way through Disc Golf Monthly 94 on YT and realized I'm not rotating on my heel on bad throws. I've done it a couple of times when trying to throw a hyzer around a tree because my focus is on keeping the disc really in line. Anyhow, I think that was somewhat of an a-ha moment. So next time out, I'm going to practice one-step into the hit focusing on heel rotation at the front of the throw and pinching hard just before the hit.



Here's the famous downhill hole. When I say..."I think you're disc just exploded" at the end ... it's because a friend offered to let me throw his Undertow. I threw it pretty far compared to my other throws that day, but it had a huge cut hyzer at the end of the throw and slammed rim first into the ground. It was a strong wind day, but I have a feeling most of it was my fault.

Any suggestions on a couple major things to focus on next time out? Still thinking about heel rotation, "hammer" throw (although I need to read more to fully understand the concept), loose arm and wrist down. If I get into the other stuff I might just go brain dead.

[JR]

Slowing down and doing one step drills with an addition of a follow through step with the left leg after disc has left is a great idea. I would solidify that first and worry about working on other things later. The pause and not punching the arm back away from the target doesn't help in anything other than getting tired, off balance, off timing and off line with probably less power. You don't throw away from the target you throw at the target so there is the place you need to put on the power. Not before it if you go for golf accurate throwing which is the way to improve the scores. I would also exaggerate how far you move the arm in the follow through. getting it far enough on powerful shots needs moving much farther than feels natural. So feeling like too much is just enough or not enough. Check out Youtube for Markus Källström and see how far he follows through on high powered shots. Youtube channel mfranssila has drive comparisons of him and lcgm8 does too.

[JR]

The next installment of the DGM series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOq09T2 ... re=related

[K-Rob]

The next installment of the DGM series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOq09T2 ... re=related

And there it is again...Feldberg brilliantly describes the "rounding" concept. DGM is great. Thanks JR. Going back out today.

Goals:
- Do the Feldberg anti-rounding technique
- One-step w/ exaggerated follow-through
- Press wrist down

#wishmeluck

[K-Rob]

Been a while since I've posted, but I'm making a trip out to De Laveaga tomorrow in Santa Cruz after a couple of field sessions and form practice. I've had a little breakthrough on the rounding issue.

I'll get some new video tomorrow and ask for some more feedback.

#wishmeluckagain