Parenting

[dgdave]

I'm at my wits end. You can tell cause I'm venting on a DG site. My 10 yr old son cannot listen and blames everything that happens on someone/something else and I have no idea what to do and haven gotten any advice from anyone that works. There's more than that stuff, but no need to get into the nitty gritty. I've tried every type of punishment and positive reinforcement I can think of with him and nothing works. I know part of it is him getting spoiled when he was little because he was the first kid the wife and I had an the first on either side. He just has no responsibility and little caring for anyone else when it doesn't involve him benefiting in some way. It's been going on for a few years, even before my wife and I talked about having a second kid. He acts just like my brother in law which isn't a good thing.

I'm really just venting because I want to I guess. Blah

[Solty]

start taking away things he enjoys/appreciates....put it where he can see it...but cant get at it..

[dgdave]

Been there done that. A few different times.

[Jeronimo]

Have you brought out the ass whuppins yet?

[dgdave]

Unfortunately.

[warobert]

I would start to consider professional assistance around this point

[Jeronimo]

This is actually where i think public schooling does kids good. Perhaps give him time, stay consistent, and allow the other children in his class to course correct him. If hes clever he'll figure out why no one wants to play with him since hes always blame shifting.

[Dig It]

What have you tried as far as changing his diet, and or medicating him? I can hear the many gasps around the world with the mention of medication but for some children it's a world of difference.

[Working Stiff]

My wife was diagnosed as insulin resistant, so we had to get serious about cutting sugar out of our diet. You would be amazed how much sugar we eat every day. Once we chopped a bunch of the sugars out of their diet, my kids settled down quite a bit. Now they still have plenty of energy to get through the day, and they don't have those "manic followed by crash" stages. At first the diet seemed crazy (no pasta, no bread, no potatoes...WTF!?!) but after I figured out the trade off is eating a lot of meat I was OK with it.

Behavior modification with your kids is tough. We fail with it a lot, but it's mostly because my wife and I suck at it. We are inconsistent with it. We do dumb stuff like when my wife told my daughter her punishment for losing her shin guards was that she could not play soccer this season when I'm coaching her team. WTF? I ended up buying her new shin guards, making her clean up the yard with me to pay me back and letting her play. My wife says I was wrong for caving in and I say she was wrong for picking a stupid punishment. Behavior modification would work a lot better for us if we could get on the same page. I'm not sure if any of that applies to your situation or not.

[peppermack]

Dave,
Behavior modification for kids with behavior issues is what I did for a living for 6 years. the one thing that you have going for you is that he is only 10. As kids get older it gets harder and harder to affect change in the behaviors. I would only let a doctor prescribe medication as a last resort. I do believe as working stiff does that diet has a huge relationship with behavior. I worked with a psychologist that specialized in ADHD and the first thing he had parents do before anything else was to give the kid double the dose of a childrens vitamin for a month and then come back and see him. In 60% of the cases this completely solved the issues that they were having. Also, like WS said, sugar has a dramatic effect on body chemistry creating dramatic fluctuations in a kids state, from high to low. I would limit sugar intake as well.

As far as behavior modification goes there are a couple of things that we always started with when we go a new client. A concrete and written behavior contract. Your son can be a part of creating this if he wants to participate and feel like he had a role in the expectations and consequences. Write a clear and concise list of behaviors that are expected and are acceptable, a list of unacceptable behaviors and then a clearly defined set of consequences for not following this contract. EVERY instance of violating the behavior contract needs to met with one of the consequences no matter what. Our kids know how to push their parents buttons and will always test when they think there is an opportunity to get away with something (parents are tired, stressed, sick, etc.). Post the contract on the wall poster size so there is no question what is expected, there is no saying I forgot by the child.

You can pair this with a visible chart on the wall that shows anything behaviors they did wrong that week but also behaviors they did well that week. This is a real concrete way for you and your son to chart his progress. The chart can have rewards that can be earned for not exceeding a certain number of behavior violations. This adds in an aspect of positive reinforcement that helps reinforce the desired behaviors.

You want all of this to be non confrontational, no yelling, getting mad, or anything like that. Refer to the contract, state that he knew what the expected behaviors were and what the consequences were and he did not live up to that. clearly tell him what the consequence of that violation are and start with it immediately. Consequences should have a defined period, that is to say what has to be done to have it lifted.

I am also a fan of if the behavior contract is not working that great you take EVERYTHING that child has away and they have to earn it back. When I say everything I mean strip their room bare to the walls and lock their stuff up where they cant get it. We as parents are required by law not to mentally or physically abuse our kids, provide food and shelter, and get them to school. Everything we do for them is because we love them and they deserve it. Sometimes kids with behavior issues need to be slapped with how good they have it and how much parents do for them that can be taken away.

These things usually have a solid effect at correcting behavior and can be re-instituted if their behavior starts to regress.

[Working Stiff]

I am also a fan of if the behavior contract is not working that great you take EVERYTHING that child has away and they have to earn it back. When I say everything I mean strip their room bare to the walls and lock their stuff up where they cant get it. We as parents are required by law not to mentally or physically abuse our kids, provide food and shelter, and get them to school. Everything we do for them is because we love them and they deserve it. Sometimes kids with behavior issues need to be slapped with how good they have it and how much parents do for them that can be taken away.

We just went this route with my oldest. We took everything away. She was mad, got more mad, and finally cried when I took her softball glove away and told her since she wasn't going to be able to play she didn't need it. It seemed like that was the thing that finally broke her will to be belligerent. She has earned several things back at this point and her issues have been under control for a few months now.

It took us four years to get to that point, though. It was a "last resort because nothing else is working" thing. It was hard. She saved to pay for 1/2 of a piano, and I had to look at her when she sat down to play it and tell her "Sorry, you lost that." That sucked. Really sucked.

[peppermack]

Ya there is definitely nothing easy about. No matter how much of a pain in the ass our kids are, if we are good parents we still love then and don't like doing things that make them unhappy. For every on person like you WS there are 10 parents who aren't willing to do it and their kids get worse and worse until either the courts, schools or some other public agency demands that the kids issues are addressed.

It was of course different for me cause the kids I work with were clients and not my kids. It is not to say that I did not care about them but I was more removed from the situation. The only thing that I can say without a doubt is that in most cases the child is not going to grow out of it. Generally kids with behavior issues are going to seek out others who reinforce their behaviors and stay away from those who cast them in a negative light. I am sure we can all remember being in school and the trouble makers always hung out with the other trouble makers. This is a sociological fact that we seek peer groups that reflect our behaviors.

[dgdave]

I've done all of these suggestions short of meds. We really don't want to do that, but may have to. He's a very smart kid who gets bored. One of the biggest things is his lack of caring for others feelings or unawareness of them.

[peppermack]

So currently your son has nothing in his room at all, does not get to watch TV, no video games, no doing stuff with friends, or anything fun? This process can take months and months. I worked with kids who were on a behavior contract for 6-7 months before there was much of a turn around. The older a child is the longer it takes to change behavior in my experience. I worked with 17-18 year olds and it would take a year so sometimes to get behavior change.

Unless you have stuck with it for that period of time I would say that you really have not given it a fair shot yet Dave. If you have and it still has not worked then I would say you need professional help A good family therapist can shed some light on what the underlying issue maybe. Sometimes parents are to close to the situation to really figure out what is going on.

Does your son function normally in social situations with his peers? Is he functioning ok at school? I ask this because lack of caring about other feeling and being unaware of other feelings can mean two totally different things. A blatant not caring about others feeling can lead to a serious personality disorder, where as being unaware of others feeling or an inability to recognize them can be mild aspergers syndrome or other related issue.

I have worked with all spectrum of kids with behavior issues. Three years in a group home for juvenile offenders, 3 years with at risk teens in a vocational training program, and six years working with teens with behavioral and mental disorders. In all of these cases behavior modification was used to change and alter unwanted behavior and strengthen positive behavior. It is a rare case where the above mentioned techniques had no effect if they were implimented and followed through with appropriately.

I would say stick with it for a longer period of time and if you don't think that will work go to a family therapist for their opinion.

[dgdave]

We did the empty room for about 5 months a couple years back. Change for a bit then right back.

He does very well in school, never heard anything but perfect things from teachers and plays well with others. Any time we is getting at trouble or talked to, it just blank states the same nod of th head.

He has gone to 2 different councilors and they have came up with nothing and have had very little to say.