Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow through

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Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow through

Postby Indy's broken whip » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:37 pm

First some background. I have been playing few yours, and since last June, I have been playing about once a week (with thrree month break at winter), and I admit that I should have been practicing more on field, as I have learned lots of bad habits... I throw almost always RHBH, and altough I have tried x-step, I usually throw standstill or with one-step. Usually x-steps or even one step just mess my already poor technique, but sometimes things seem to go more naturally with steps. After reading hundreds of pages of advice in last few months, and practicing right pec drill etc. on a field few times a week, I still can only throw about 200' on average, maxing with about 250' on a good day. I admit that I haven't been pacient enough, put I quickly found that the right pec drill seems bit unnatural to me, as I tend to swing my arm somehow that I spray the discs to the right. With pull from left pec, throws seem to be better, and with more reachback I feel even more natural, although I have hard time of keeping the aim if I look away from the target, again resulting spraying on the right, or occasionally releasing to early. Another problem has been the hips, which I didn't probably use before at all, and still my knees hurt sometimes and the I feel quite unbalanced, swinging forward etc.

But yesterday when practicing, I saw some other players playing catch with putters, and their line of the pull seemed bit weird. It looked like they were good players as the disc flew so nicely, so I decided to try similar reachback and pull (later I found out that they had been looking me like I was the good player, not them...).

And behold, instanly the disc seemed to fly more straight, faster and somewhat farther, and even the release direction seemed to be closer to the target.

Only problem with this newfound technique is that I'm quite certain is it not the right way of throwing. :D

Basically I start with full reachback, the disc almost at the height of eyes. I had found out bit earlier some success with such a high starting point compared to the shoulder height, but had forgotten the whole thing as I have recently tried to reduce the length of the reachback in order to time the acceleration better in the end of the throw.

Next, instead of a straight and level line (relative to my body and ground, ie. like there was line between the target and the starting position of the disc), I initially pull with more downward motion, so that when the disc is somewhere between center of my body and right leg (can't say for sure, hard to test the actual motin without actually throwing successfully), the height of the disc is somewhere close to my belly instead of shoulder.

If I have understood terms correctly, in the right pec drill the power zone starts somewhere around the right pec and the disc stays at the same height through the motions, in this style the disc goes up and forward so that when the disc lefts the hand it's about the same position as the end position of the usual throw.

So basically I'm doing somekind pendulum motion with my hand, and this happens totally automatically, so that I can't even describe it very well. If I start by pull from the shoulder level or below, I tend to pull quite straight and level line, but when I start from bit higher, this kind of motion happens, and it feels much more smooth. Somehow I can keep my whole arm more relaxed through the pull, with the hips and gravity giving the initial boost towards the start of the power zone, and then I naturally pull the disc as upward motion to the release point.

So am I onto something, or would it be better to just work normal technique and forgot this sillyness? :)
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Re: Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow throu

Postby JR » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Tervetuloa, missä päin sä vaikutat?

Lower arm pull height as the disc passes your torso leaves the arm muscles looser. Certainly looser than the right pec drill at constant height over the ground overdriven so hard that you miss right. Scooping up from the belly to the release of the disc will lift the disc forcing the nose of the disc up. With putters it isn't as bad as with other discs because putters tolerate nose up angles better. Because putters are slower and fade less.

What i would test out is pulling the arm at a constant height at different heights starting with the shoulder level dropping down to the belly button in 10 cm intervals. You should notice loosening of the arm as you go lower for a while but the lower you go the harder it will be to keep the nose down.

Try a driver for the up-down-up throw you did and the different pull heights. That will show you nose angle issues better. Although some slow drivers are fairly insensitive to nose up angles. So try to avoid slow low fade discs for these tests.

Note that the way we teach things here concentrates on getting the most accuracy the fastest. I can name guys in Finland that don't move everything in a straight line with all the body parts moving the disc in the same direction. And the form they use creates more power but also more inconsistencies. Because disc golf is more about accuracy than distance i'd train to maximize repeatable accuracy first and worry about the distance later.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow throu

Postby Indy's broken whip » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:23 pm

Kiitos, Jyväskylän seudulla heittelen.

Thanks for the comments. I went to the practice field couple days ago, and couldn't replicate my results anymore, it was quite windy, and all the throws had either big fades or turned quite hard to the right due to the strong arming or something.

I think the main problem with my throwing is that I tend to be very stiff, I probably pinch the disc too hard compared to the overall speed of my movements. Sometimes I can feel how the disc leaves my hand clean and flies nicely, and it's when all the motions were very fluid without outmuscling. But especially when playing on a course, I tend to try too much, resulting either nose up or otherwise very high line, or even more often flipping the to right too hard.

I also can't usually throw any putter straight more than maybe ten meters unless I release the putter with very high hyzer angle. Otherwise I get huge wormburners...

I use dart and P1 for putting, Buzzz FLX, Coyote and MD2 for midrange throws and Sidewinder for driving. I used Leopard before winter, but it's white so haven't used it for some time, and haven't found any use for it anymore. Had Valkyrie also, but I threw it to the roof of the indoor ice rink due to the massive grip lock. :P Putters, MD2 and Coyote all turn to the right very hard with some wobble, all drivers tend to turn too if released flat, but with some hyzer they usually either stay on that angle or flip straight.
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Re: Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow throu

Postby JR » Wed May 02, 2012 6:55 am

On a flat ground throw you usually want to keep the arm at a constant height above the ground all through the shot. It sounds like you drop the arm low after the disc leaves or roll the wrist clockwise. I'm in Helsinki so personal tutoring needs traveling. I'm staffing Tali Open are you coming there?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow throu

Postby Indy's broken whip » Wed May 02, 2012 1:05 pm

It's been very windy for last couple of days, I was practicing on field yesterday, and although it took some time to really understand the wind, it was overall very valuable practice (new distance record to top of other things, about 95 meters :) ). I stumbled upon Disc Golf Monthly video on Youtube (http://youtu.be/lUOq09T2q54), and I realized that I have been doing exactly as Feldberg said, pulling straight to the right pec and then turning on ball of my foot and swinging my hand around. I now really focused on straight pull, and it felt so much better. It's probably going to take a a lot of time to learn how to get the weight to the heel instead of ball, but I'm convinced now that it's really much better that way. Based on few tries it feels much faster and controlled way, although it's seems to be harder to get weight forward.

I'm going to Keila in Estonia in weekend, so no Tali for me. :)
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Re: Line and height of the reach back, pull and follow throu

Postby JR » Thu May 03, 2012 3:06 am

Tali is enroute to Tallinn to Keila :-) Getting the elbow well closer to the target than the right side before the body faces less than 90 degrees away from the target helps a lot in keeping the disc on a line. Check out both clinic episodes 94 and 95 IIRC out of Disc Golf Monthly. Wind can push the disc farther or drop the disc but congratulations on the distance record anyway.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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