Howling at the Coyote (JR has been right)

[dgdave]

I've had a Glow Champ Coyote for a year and never really tossed it. I just got a second one for a stamp I did and I went and tossed them some this weekend and damn, they are really nice. Slow, glidey, easy to control, pushes forward on fades, even flies good into moderate winds. I'm really surprised by this disc. I have switched from a pinch to a modified power grip on my mids and I think that's made a difference as well.

[Leopard]

flat Champ Coyotes are the shit

[jubuttib]

flat Champ Coyotes are the shit

My slightly domey one isn't bad either, got me my first ace.

[JR]

Hey i can throw the 'yote well left too I need more practice with production run Star Mako vs Coyotes champ semi domey and Star the same way but so far it seems that depending on the power Coyote can be as little LSS as the Mako when both are new. At pulled power the Coyote fades a third to a half tick more than the Mako but give it power and it loses on the fade and starts to turn for me. I can't tell if that turn comes from wrist rolls though. It is repeatable so i hope it is the disc because it makes the disc more versatile. I threw my longest flat land minimal wind (rear) shot with the Coyote on the last session before going to surgery. I hope i'll be better and can throw even farther once i learn the toe heel toe pivot (impossible at full speed now) to top the 347' flipped to around 2 degrees anny to land flat on grass with no skips.

Both the Coyote and the Mako can fly far left and right but i'd say that the Mako moves more sideways and at a faster rate so it is horrible for minor sideways control steps and great for extreme distances of sideways movement. The stiffer Coyotes are better for stronger grips and fall in the same category of great when straight or that few degrees of flip at high power but not so much sideways placement accuracy even though it is better there than the Mako. I think the Mako has just observably better height keeping capability when flying tilted. Probably due to the wide diameter. Both discs overlap hugely so i'd pick one or the other and for many the difference may boil down to the preferred diameter of the disc so i think that for many the Coyote fits the hand better. Neither are fine for headwinds. That means that less gliding more HSS mids pair up well with the Coyote and the Mako. I haven't thrown both side by side in all wind directions but i would not wonder if the Mako gets pushed more sideways in wind gusts.

[dgdave]

I have a flat and a very slightly domed one.

[Crosseyed0811]

I've got an older Star Coyote that I have always had a fondness for, just always scared to rely on them because I'm told here mostly I'd be better off with something else. I always get good throws with it, but it tends to fight for shots over some of my more beat up Rocs. Anything that fights in my bag usually gets pulled out cause I don't need that kind of stuff in my head when I'm on the tee...

Sell the Coyote to me in a way that makes it stay in my bag... Please?

Edit: JR you said "That means that less gliding more HSS mids pair up well with the Coyote", what mids fit this category in the sense you're talking? Would a Cro/Coyote combo be what you're saying? Or more Gator/Coyote? I guess what I'm looking for is what could I pair with a Coyote to cover all the shots if I was trying to let the Coyote handle most of the work?

[dgdave]

I've gone to the Ti buzzz over these. Still real nice

[Crosseyed0811]

I've gone to the Ti buzzz over these. Still real nice

We won't hold it against you

[JR]

Didn't your TI Buzzz fly without flipping like good Z Buzzzes? Some say their TI Buzzzes flip. Do TI Buzzzes fli immediately and move a lot sideways if thrown away from flat like the rest of the Buzzzes do? If they do that means that small steps in sideways placement would be better done with a straighter flying compliment like the Coyote or even better the Roc.

Crosseyed: Cro would be a good pair because Gator may leave too large a gap in between the two because in too little headwind to straighten out the Gator the Coyote would flip so getting a straight shot would need guestimation of initial hyzer angle compensation for the Coyote to flip to flat and the Coyote glides too much and flips too easily in headwinds easily winding up way way of sideways in case of a misestimation of the headwind. Good Z Buzzz and for more wind Glo Z Buzzz would work too. And the early Cro i had faded more like the Glo Z Buzzz but i gave my Cro away so long ago that with changed form and more power i can't say about the headwind flips and fades of the Cro.

Other good slightly flipping candidates for quicker turns than the Coyote would be slightly domed Buzzzes. Personally a quickly turning mid is a poor idea in the same way as a way piggish overstable mid would be. For long throws flipping fairways like Leos would do and sideways placement with a slower sideways moving mid like the Coyote or Roc counts more for scores than D and for tightest turns you could use a putter. I don't think that there would be ranging issues in annies of accurate sideways placement with small increments well chosen discs with putter, mid and fw like Aviar P & A, Coyote, Sidewinder,Leo,River and the million other understable discs including beat versions of more overstable FWs. Yes Sidewinder is faster than FWs but it power down well an annies due to the low HSS and LSS and the Coyote flies far as it is so it might overlap with a Leo more than River and Sidey.

[Crosseyed0811]

Cro would be a good pair because Gator may leave too large a gap in between the two because in too little headwind to straighten out the Gator the Coyote would flip so getting a straight shot would need guestimation of initial hyzer angle compensation for the Coyote to flip to flat and the Coyote glides too much and flips too easily in headwinds easily winding up way way of sideways in case of a misestimation of the headwind. Good Z Buzzz and for more wind Glo Z Buzzz would work too. And the early Cro i had faded more like the Glo Z Buzzz but i gave my Cro away so long ago that with changed form and more power i can't say about the headwind flips and fades of the Cro.

I may have to try out a Cro/Coyote combo... Both are discs I've always liked but never been convinced of how they fit in the bag...

[JR]

Have you tried the Spider? That could pair well with the Coyote too for straighter overall performance with the con of not having straight then automatic fade as hard as the Cro does. The Spider does handle winds much better than the Coyote though. That could be another pair to try out.

[money 21]

i throw a coyote spider combo for a while it was solid.

[Crosseyed0811]

Have you tried the Spider? That could pair well with the Coyote too for straighter overall performance with the con of not having straight then automatic fade as hard as the Cro does. The Spider does handle winds much better than the Coyote though. That could be another pair to try out.

Yes, had a Spider fit here recently, if I were doing 1 disc rounds I'd probably use a Spider. My 171 champ spider got to where it wanted to turn a little more on my FH's and so I kinda gave it up. Quite frankly I might should try a heavier one...

BTW, I've only thrown a Star Coyote, how do they differ from the Champ ones? I only have the one and figure I need to get another, not sure if the champ may be nice to throw in there or not.

[JR]

My only Champ 167 is lighter due to LED night golf requirements (at times one disc rounds) than the Star and DX max weight i have. The flight of the C 167 plus a light LED seems to be otherwise the same except a hair more fade that usually does not change shot planning and required form. Tunnels are the only differences. And of course the hard Champion plastic is slick and the Star ain't the grippiest blend either. I think the Champ should last a long time but FH is fussy for clean form. The bead doesn't make clean releases easier. Buzzz for straighter shots and Zone or Gator for automatic fades FH would probably be better in heavier winds for safety against the elements and user error. Spider is fine for shorter approaches though.

[Crosseyed0811]

My only Champ 167 is lighter due to LED night golf requirements (at times one disc rounds) than the Star and DX max weight i have. The flight of the C 167 plus a light LED seems to be otherwise the same except a hair more fade that usually does not change shot planning and required form. Tunnels are the only differences. And of course the hard Champion plastic is slick and the Star ain't the grippiest blend either. I think the Champ should last a long time but FH is fussy for clean form. The bead doesn't make clean releases easier. Buzzz for straighter shots and Zone or Gator for automatic fades FH would probably be better in heavier winds for safety against the elements and user error. Spider is fine for shorter approaches though.

How much of this is about the Coyote? I was thinking it was up until the comment about the bead and then the last part about the Spider. I've got my Spiders locked in pretty much, just have never thrown a Champ Coyote to compare to my Star Coyote, so the Coyote was the one I was asking about. If that's what you were referring to then that's fine, just wasn't sure.