had my first legit 400' drive

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had my first legit 400' drive

Postby ladysmanfelpz » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:11 pm

Ive been playing about 3 years now and really trying to figure out the backhand. First year I was just noob status. Last year I became a pretty mean forehander. I know I need the backhand and it is better and can get more distance so i keep trying to play it in rounds and been hitting the fields to figure it out. Last week it clicked a little and I started to get more snap. My reach back wasn't far enough and I was trying to whip it. I got my hips into it, pulled straight through, and finished with my weight and chest forward. Well I threw a bunch today and only one round really clicked. Katana went about 360. destroyer 370 and boss 400. Boss rip was sick and I wish I could do that all the time. They all felt pretty effortless with the follow through being the best and snap fairly good. Tried to reiterate it a few more times but just couldn't get the same results. I think if I can get the snap everytime I can work with that. Any advice for a beginner please?!!
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby JR » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:34 am

Well done feels pretty great huh? My advice is to not revert back to old form despite the temptation of short term better scoring with familiar form. After all it was a new and unfamiliar (thus not yet repeatable) form that gave you the distance bump. Now you gotta search for the parts of form that work and solidify and more average distance will come. Now that you broke a new plateau it is imperative to field practice it more to get to know what you have to do to get to 400' and practice it to be permanent to have an on demand 400' toss.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby JHern » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:15 pm

JR wrote:...Now that you broke a new plateau it is imperative to field practice it more...


This is the truth, it isn't like riding a bicycle, it's much harder to maintain 400' distance. If you put more effort into field training, you'll get more returns, guaranteed. The first time I reached 370' was with a Champion Boss, and that was 2-ish years ago. But I haven't kept up with the field practice, so I only occasionally reach 400', whereas if I were to train more often I would probably be up to 450' by now.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby ladysmanfelpz » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:46 pm

ya i went out today to try it again. Only my last round of throws I had good snap and fairly good distance but no 400'. I think the biggest thing I need to do is keep the disc right along my right pec to get that snap. How do people get their hips into it tho? I am trying to use less arm and really rip with the hips but keep turning it over or i just try to hard and lose my grip and it goes no where. The only other person I see is a javelin thrower you just twists really hard but is not controlled at all.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby JR » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:04 pm

As with everything new doing practice by moving slowly to get the movements, sequence and timing right helps at first. So no run ups and sneaking speed first two steps only accelerating with the plant step. You need to stay within yourself so even the posture of the hips can go away going full tilt. Ask me how i know i do it 10 years into the game. Creaky body not much condition. So hitting the gym for abs, lower back and side muscles will help in time but don't forget the smaller muscles and coordination training. Yoga pose palm tree is good for that. Other than that you know how to twist the hips to the right when you are standing so starting practice with stand still throws moving to single step, then two and x step to run ups would help. Keeping slight bend at the knees allows you to pivot freely without tweaking the joints and the back. It also allows you to push forward with the left leg and back with the right leg to create rotational momentum to the right to help get the hips twisting.

If you have back injuries your subconscious can stop you from twisting the hips actively. That's me. There is an uncertain way of pushing beyond what the mind thinks of as being unsafe but it is betting your life quality. You can jam the right leg in place at the plant for a fraction of a second to get the hips turning passively from the momentum. It ain't as powerful as doing passive augmented by the muscles but what can you do? I advice against this before talking to a doc about it. You absolutely positively must let go with the right leg muscle tension soon to allow a full pivot at the proper time. You also can't avoid the mandatory sole partially on the ground while pushing back on the right leg then tensing up the muscles for a while before pivoting. Flat footing will injure you bad and fast.

Hip twist lack may also come from wrong sequence of events or trying too hard. Staying loose but not totally relaxed to avoid posture degradation in the core is the optimum. Not gritting the teeth pre throw now i'm gonna rip a hole in space/time with this ginormous effort as if you were lifting weights. Bulging and tensing up the muscles only slows you down and can bend your body. Stiff muscles are mostly slowing down movements. Lock the core muscles and no wonder if it is harder and slower to twist the hips. Easy does it.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby DsmDisc » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:03 pm

For me getting my hips into it are what propelled me past 400' (and I can tell it is what is missing when I fail to hit 400'.)

It's a combination of things, but primarily the momentum from the run-up carrying through when you plant. When your legs stop moving, the momentum has to go somewhere, and it transfers into the hips.

The number one tip I give people is to make sure their hips are closing on the x-step. Your hips should be pretty darn close to facing 180 degrees away from the target once your x-step hits the ground. If you don't close your hips, it is by definition impossible to open them. You can't open an open door.

As JR said though, you have to stay loose. If you're too tense, then your hips may open, but your whole torso is going to be locked together and you won't get any added power from it.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby new013 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:03 pm

Throw up some videos of yourself driving so we can give you better advice.
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby ladysmanfelpz » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:08 pm

Sorry i made a video but am having the hardest time uploading it. Ill try on my schools internet. Been reading about snap lately, and was wondering some tips/drills to develop some more snap. My reachback is pretty good and I have decent arm speed, but would love to get more snap to see a more stable disc flight
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Re: had my first legit 400' drive

Postby JR » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:35 pm

Reading the super sekret technique thread and this:

Standing still not using the legs, hips, shoulders and shoulder socket at all remaining perfectly still (no cheating half an inch is too much of movement in there for this drill) moving the arm straight and then backing up 3" do a twitch muscle snap getting the arm straight and stopping the wrist abruptly. Note that in the 3" short of straight position the back of the hand has to be inline with the forearm. Not extended to the right. After the snap the arm is straight and the back of the hand is to the right of this neutral position. Probably no matter how hard you try to stop the wrist from moving if you have a good punching speed and have not locked the wrist. Sure some can have enough wrist strength to lock the wrist in neutral position but then their elbow straightening ain't fast enough.

When i say twitch i mean moving the arm as fast as the automated pulling of the arm away from a hot object is. In order to achieve this speed the arm muscles have to be loose. I suggest seeing/feeling the difference of a loose arm in this drill and a totally tight muscles like you were lifting your personal record of weights to each other to see why twitch muscles use only the surface layers of muscles. Tighten the arm muscles through and through and much of the muscles are acting like a pole resisting the arm straightening.

An important point: In order to maximize the disc pivot speed you need to hold on as hard as you can by the time the disc starts to pivot so the command has to leave the brain early in order for the fingers to comply in time. Another great point is that slamming on the breaks adds spin and speed on the disc. That is so counter intuitive that it has to be forced into the brain by drills and this drill is good for it. This season i've finally gained enough arm strength/pinch power/muscle mass to protect the injured areas of my arm to be able to retard the wrist motion to the right as the elbow is becoming straight late in the throw. I'm not great with active opening of the wrist in BH but FH worked ok last year. The result is more speed and spin and straighter longer flights on well snapped throws. Buzzzes from 300' to 330' good vs good drive from last year to this for example and Coyote to 347' on the best shots and often to 340'. I have also had an ankle surgery to free up motion range so a part of the increase could come from there but i know i'm using my arm muscles differently and now i surpass the 250' limit of last year for retarding the wrist. Those were the longest distances i achieved with retarding the wrist last year. Anything longer than that and my wrist would flap unresisted to the right. Or at least overpowered.

Now with more resisting power the motion of the hand is shorter and i get more pressure on the fingers from the disc pivot. I also notice that i can compress the wrist snap into a shorter space and it pushed the discs out farther even before the ankle surgery and i already noticed longer flights out of midrange discs. I haven't yet done tests to FWs and drivers to see exactly how far i can get them. I suspect my muscle power ain't good enough to get similar jumps out of them because i think my grip strength is still lacking. And having short fingers loses leverage for discs with larger wings than Leopards.

So far with my possibly muscle power limited progresses i've noticed that the sanp should be using twitch muscles to speed up the arm stroke and the wrist active snap forward and the whole diameter(mass) of the muscle to stop the wrist and most importantly the timing is critical because the motions are fast. You need to be able to compress the wrist flinging forward and retardation of the wrist into very few inches of motion. The fewer the better and the more powerful you are the shorter and faster the stroke needs to be. So you need both explosiveness in the twitching motion and maximum power in stopping the wrist and strength training should be done to achieve both goals. Plyometric exercises like throwing an exercise ball that is heavy up and down should help. As does weight lifting training for the explosiveness of the muscles opposite of the biceps and wrist curls etc. Light enough weights for strength training should be used in order to achieve fast motions early and the real work happens when you resist the gravity and slowly allow the movement to reach toward the ground. Except in plyometrics that need to be explosive.

Here is the beautiful part of working back from the hit: Using the above drill adding an inch more of reach back for each time you felt a successful short fast snap with good wrist retardation you will see the limit of your power quickly, get a good warm up portion of the total routine, calibrate the snap timing and distance while getting reminded of how you need to use the arm muscles. And it trains the explosiveness of the throw so doing this in the warm up will increase your snapping power in the long term while helping in getting the best snap you can have at this time when you go out to throw. By the time you've reached a full reach back (you probably won't for a long time unless you already have this down) and still getting a great fast short wrist snap you've done so many reps that your muscles should be warmer and looser readier for accurate driving. Of course you need to stretch well and do low powered shots before doing this because this is a violent exercise that shakes the muscles and tendons hard. And this is repetitive exercise and you would not believe how repetitive stress injuries can creep up on you without giving pain when you're working out. I know i had surgery afterward getting RSI at work. Not doing this drill but the potential is there so take care and try this only at your own risk.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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