FTT's (slower) bag project

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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:09 pm

I meant that there is too long a gap between the FD and the MD2 IMO at least for tunnels because the FD i donated away faded way more than the river and the Leo. A hair more than a full powered QOLS but i think the fade on those would reverse with added height and pulled power.

I haven't done field testing on many discs this year but i've gained D on mids and currently my Coyote record is 10' shy of my best Leopard toss last year but i'm sure that i can push the Leo farther now. I haven't thrown Leos this year with the added HSS of a River giving me more wind and user error safety margin. Coyote is hellalong for a mid and i should do a shootout with a Stalker because i've thrown the Coyote farther than the Stalker and again i haven't thrown the Staler this year. Without doing a shootout Leo vs Coyote i can't say which would give me the most safety margin now but i've got very different kinds of Leos and so far the Champs have been the most consistent. At your power a Leo could also fill the gap possibly but other than straighter shots than the FD gives there would be overlap. The sanity of carrying a Leo and an FD comes from distance control. If you don't get separation in D between those two there is little reason to carry both and then the Coyote or the more finicky Axis would bridge the distance between the MD2 and the FD better.

FD and Valk overlap probably given the rest of the discs you are trying out. Adding a lighter P PD and breaking it in could replace the need for TBs and one TD should be enough because that too overlaps with the Valk bad and the FD moderately. But it also depends on what kind of TD you have. Flatter gummy TDs are flippy and opaque and champystar TDs vary in between the plastic blends from straightish to almost moderately overstable role. Dropping the TB might seem like a weird idea considering how fast the less than FB stable discs are but the FD can fly the same lines if it fades like mine did and the PD powers down nicely into similar flight. The cool thing about the PD is that it handles winds better than the TB. The cool thing about the Coyote paired up with the PD is that because both are long for their class and great discs they have good distance separation and the Coyote is straighter than the TB and easier to place and manipulate they cover the TB shots and doing it better than the TB does. There is the reason why i don't use TBs and that it fades too much for tunnels even broken in to flip state and even in max weight champ it doesn't take winds as well as PDs and some other more modern disc. TB is the granddaddy now move over Beethoven.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:13 am

Thanks for the replies Crosseyed and JR.

As for MD2's, I love them, but they do lose distance for me on lower shots because of a lack of glide (relative to something like an Axis). My flat C MD2 is seasoned now and I need to be more careful with the amount of anhyzer I give it. And yes, it does have a substantial gap with my FD. My D MD2's are becoming less and less stable. I need more time with them to dial in the angle of release needed, but I think these will be invaluable once I really learn them. I like the idea of adding an Axis in there. I've thrown them before and know what to expect. I also like the idea that it wont change much over time, especially since it would be a niche disc.

What do you guys think? C MD2/Axis/D MD2 and drop the Gator? If I did that, I would try to find a new flat C MD2.

I'm doing a write-up on my drivers next. It's a bit lengthy, but I would love to hear some thoughts.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:28 am

Here's my write-up on my drivers. I would love some thoughts on narrowing down these categories.

Max Distance
156 Blizzard Boss - Shows some high speed turn when thrown flat, fades predictably, but horrible in a headwind. If I get it low enough, it's a frozen rope...but that's hard to get the right nose angle.
148 Blizzard Katana - It's hard to get this to fly consistent. Admittedly, I need to work on my throwing form, because sometimes I can overpower this and send it into a roller, where other times it flies a slow-turning line that fades predictably. It needs more height than the Boss.
I'm leaning toward the Boss for Max D, but I could entertain the Krait or some other straight 11-12 speed disc that isn't Blizzard. I'm not against B plastic, but I like the predictability of heavier discs.

Very Overstable
175 12x Champ Firebird - Flat, super beefy, pretty new
175 11x Champ Firebird - Flat, much more workable and still fights wind realllly well
I love these two as a duo here: 12x for overhand and stupid-stiff headwinds, 11x for headwinds, downhill, and more workable overstable shots

Overstable / Stable Control
169 S PD - Beefy, kinda new, great forehand disc and headwind disc. I stepped down from this to Teebirds because of how much power it needs, but I do love the way it flies. If I could find a less stable S PD, I might be more apt to have them in my bag again. I'm weary of P PD's because of how bad the recent plastics have run (hard and not durable).
171 Champystar Teebird - What I love about this disc is how much glide it has and how predictable it is. Where it falls short is on forehands and headwinds, so it's pretty much only good for one type of shot: it can't take too much anhyzer or hyzer before it goes way off line.
175 11x Champ Teebird - Admittedly I really want to keep this disc because it's an 11x. It shows high speed turn, sucks in a headwind, but it has such a beautiful flight otherwise. Strangely, it does decently well with forehand shots.
I would love to go back to PD's because of how they do so well on a wide variety of shots. If I could find the right ones, I would be hooked again.

Understable / Distance
170 Champystar Valk - I have three of these, and one is more seasoned than the others. That one shows a little bit of high speed turn, has decent glide, and predictable fade that isn't too bad that it loses distance. I picked up three from the same run so I could work on distance with a disc that wouldn't "cheat". These fly almost identical to my S TD's, but I think they will break in much faster.
169 Champystar TD - Like I said, this flies almost the same as my C/S Valks. It's a great line-holding disc with decent glide. It might take some headwind a touch better, and I think this will stay stable a lot longer than Valks. I also have a 172 S TD that is a touch more stable.
169 Champystar FD - This started out straight and stable, but now it flies with a beautiful slow-turning flight. I love how it shapes lines - higher anhyzer lines carry for a long time and don't flip. I can get it to fly on a frozen rope if thrown low enough, but if I dont get it low enough it does have enough LSS to keep me from wanting to use it in tunnels.
This is where I need the most help. These discs all seem to overlap a lot. Assuming I go with Firebirds and PD's, what would you guys suggest?
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:16 am

Not to throw a monkey wrench in your stuff here, but you sound like you really want something between the PD and Teebird. Not going to search this thread and see, but have you ever tried Eagles? Not quite as power hungry as the PD, but a little more workable and FH/Headwind handling than Teebirds.
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FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:49 am

True, but I think I can manage the same shots with PD's and TD's. Their distance potential puts them a step ahead of Eagles and Teebirds.

I'll make this easy for myself. I'm going to see if my local shop has a good Axis. I'll throw that with my MD2's and report back. After that I'll tackle the drivers and distance drivers.

EDIT - no good Axi at my shop. Gonna stick with MD2's. As far as the gap between MD2 and FD, I'll work on powering down my FD. I've been successful so far at getting no-fade shots out of it. Testing resumes as soon as FedEx drops off my discs.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby JR » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:35 pm

That sounds good because much of the time adding skills not discs will help in the long term and since you get no fade shots they work for you. Whether it is the difference in our discs or you're throwing so low that the disc can't fade before it hits the ground or you have enough OAT to stop the fade before the disc hits the ground i can't tell. While it is working i see no problem other than possibly the need to clean up form for longer, straighter more accurate shots especially with faster discs. Besides saving money is good :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:21 pm

JR wrote:That sounds good because much of the time adding skills not discs will help in the long term and since you get no fade shots they work for you. Whether it is the difference in our discs or you're throwing so low that the disc can't fade before it hits the ground or you have enough OAT to stop the fade before the disc hits the ground i can't tell. While it is working i see no problem other than possibly the need to clean up form for longer, straighter more accurate shots especially with faster discs. Besides saving money is good :-)


You are probably right in your assertions on needing to clean up my form. I know my form is not horrible, but I've been so busy lately and a lack of playing time has hurt my form. And you are also right assuming my no-fade shots with an FD are thrown low. I'm going to keep playing with what I have. I can't imagine that another disc is going to make me a better player right now. I think I got a little excited about new plastic the other day :) and admittedly, over the last 2 years since I started playing. I think I might retire this thread and start a new one if I am in need of advice for a step up from what I currently have.
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Re: FTT's (slower) bag project

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:54 am

You forgot something so I'll do it for you...


/thread


(I couldn't resist)
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