Distance Inflation... yes or no?

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Distance Inflation... yes or no?

Postby Jwt4412 » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:13 am

Serious Question...

I personally know about 4 people who can rip one on a course for about 350' and the other 40 people I have played rounds with simply can't.

I know I can't.

How come everybody who plays disc golf who has access to the internet can throw 400' or 500'?

What gives?
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Postby roadkill » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:04 am

I believe you're right in that most people tend to exaggerate the distance they can throw.

I think people who have reached or overdriven a 400' hole will say they can throw 400. However the hole may have been downhill, wind aided or just a fluke throw.

The distance a person can throw to me is the distance a person can throw on a level open field without significant wind present.

And of course there's often a huge difference between all out distance and on the course distance. Some people only have 350 on the course, but allow them to do a 360spin on an open field and they may show you 425 or better.

I'd say the average golfer throws between 260-325. Tourney players average 300-380. Top pros average 420-460. And there are probably about 7-12 individuals in the world who can consistently throw over 500 without serious tailwind.
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Postby Frank Delicious » Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:52 am

I take any personal bragging with a grain of salt over the internet. I know I can throw consistantly about 310-325 but I do know plenty of people who can throw 350 but most people I play with only throw ~300.

I also think it is funny that all the people who can throw over 350 only carry like 3 drivers but all the people who can't carry about 10 different drivers. Consistancy is the key.
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Postby Torg » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:16 pm

I think most people just have no clue what 300 or 500 feet actually is. I remember throwing a good throw for me on a hole, about 350 feet and pretty much where I wanted it. The people behind me freaked out and were like, Wow that was like 550 feet.. awesome throw! I knew better. If you want to see how far you throw just go to a football field and throw from the back of one endzone to the other endzone. I know I occasionally can launch one 450 feet, but much more normal is about 300- 350.

This kinda dovetails into peoples obsession with new drivers. Most people get all excited about the latest driver. It seems everyone forgets that people were throwing discs over 600 feet a long time ago... the problem isn't the disc. I just try to settle into one main driver to use for most of my drives. I buy a bunch of em and get used to them and use them for years. Until last year I used a Stealth as my main driver. I finally switched to an Orc last year and plan on using it for 5-10 years. If I'm not driving 550 feet the problem isn't the disc.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:17 pm

i wrote an article on this subject recently.

something to be known... a lot of people can throw 350', very few people can throw 450'.

for adult males under the age of 40, 350' is what is achieved with decent technique but with not a lot of snap. also, 350' line drive D corresponds to ~425' of distance line power.

for players that do not hit 350', there is something technique related that just isn't clicking and nothing that is particularly difficult to master. either that or players tend to throw too low.

a lot of people's average D in regions is dependent upon how old and well-established the dg scene is. i live in a fairly old region and i can say that i know of at least 80 players locally that regularly break 350', but only about 6 that can throw 450' with any consistency.
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Postby didihitatree » Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:46 pm

There's a weekly game where the serious players all play and when I watch them, many of them really can throw 350. But outside that group, I rarely see anyone get anywhere close to the distance those guys do. On a regular day of playing golf, I outdrive about 90% of the people I see and I top out right about 300-- if I'm throwing on an open field. And among the people who outdrive me, the vast majority of them throw overhand.

I think the average person can throw 350 with good technique, but it takes a long time to develop that technique. I figure most of the people here and on the web are pretty serious players to be reading about disc golf on the web so I tend to believe them. I'm skeptical about anyone who says "I've been throwing for 2 months and I can drive 325."

Also, I wonder if course conditions factor in. I have some friends from Cincinnati who play Mt. Airy and they all say they can drive over 300 consistently. I don't think they're lying. But when they visit me and we play on my course, they don't outdrive me (plus they hit every single tree on the course) and they all say they can't seem to get any distance here. Maybe the Virginia humidity takes some D off your game.
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Postby Blake_T » Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:33 pm

i always separate consistency and distance.

when i started disc golfing there were far fewer good players than there are now out at the course.

using the rick bays license to drive article i was able to hit 300' during my 5th week of playing dg and i hit 340' within 3 months (with much slower drivers than available now, hit 300' w/ the XL and 340' w/ a gazelle). it took me until about 14 months to have my first accurate drive that broke 400' and about 18 months to break 450'. i'll fully admit that i average about 3 throws a year that break 450' in the air.

the people that throw 450+ generally were throwing 400+ within their first 6 months of playing (unless they started at younger than 15).

i believe a lot of the distance mythos that exists nowadays is that people learn to throw with discs that are too fast/overstable for them and this prevents them from learning how to throw the lines needed to get D on golf drives.

340' with a gazelle is equivalent to like 400' with a wraith.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:00 pm

roadkill wrote:I believe you're right in that most people tend to exaggerate the distance they can throw.

I think people who have reached or overdriven a 400' hole will say they can throw 400. However the hole may have been downhill, wind aided or just a fluke throw.

The distance a person can throw to me is the distance a person can throw on a level open field without significant wind present.

And of course there's often a huge difference between all out distance and on the course distance. Some people only have 350 on the course, but allow them to do a 360spin on an open field and they may show you 425 or better.

I'd say the average golfer throws between 260-325. Tourney players average 300-380. Top pros average 420-460. And there are probably about 7-12 individuals in the world who can consistently throw over 500 without serious tailwind.


I think the problem is more likely the way holes are marked. If the ideal line for a hole is a big sweeping hyzer, that line could be 400', and someone drives a line drive threw some trees could be throwing a 300' line. Often courses (especially older ones marked before lazer range finders/ gps were a cost effective tool)
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distance

Postby twmccoy » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:59 pm

Well, there are many people around here who can throw 400' or better on flat ground with no wind consistently. I still also think the best way to measure your distance is to go to a full size baseball field with distances posted on the fence and throw toward center field.
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Re: distance

Postby roadkill » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:18 am

twmccoy wrote:Well, there are many people around here who can throw 400' or better on flat ground with no wind consistently. I


While I don't dispute your statement, I'm just curious as to what constitutes "many". 10 people in your hometown? 40% of the regulars in your region?

In my relatively small city we have two players who can throw 450 consistently and a third about 420, but if you account for all the "duffers" who play, these three are a small percentage of our total local players. (There are a significant percentage that throw 375 but the three players exceeding 400 consistently is probably less than 10%).
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Postby garublador » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:16 am

The closest I've ever come to measuring is throwing on a soccer field that I have confidence is fairly close to the regulation size. I was able to throw somewhere between 20-40' past the goal, which puts me in the 350' range. That's with fairly high speed drivers, though. I can only get my QJLS or Sabre out to 300'-325' or so. I'd like to get out to a football field sometime and really measure how far I'm actually throwing each of my discs. I try to underestimate my distances, too in hopes of being more accurate. I don't feel like I'm inflating any numbers that way.

I was able to get an X-Tracker 20-30' past the short tee on this hole this weekend with only 6-8' of height:

http://www.playdg.com/bassettcreek/?h=2

I find that's a pretty hole to measure "golf" distance on. The measurement method they used is consistant from each tee to the pin (GPS), even after the pin moved, so I'm pretty confident the distance between the tees is accurate.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:23 am

One thing about the recreational DG player is that we get excited when we have good games/throws, especially if DG is not a big thing in that area. Do not confuse this with bragging.

As for distance, it never has mattered to me if I cannot play it on a course. I used to go to football fields to measure distace. I've thrown the from one end zone and made it through the field goal marker, but then I thought, who cares?
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Good thread!!!

Postby Bradley Walker » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:50 am

I love this thread. This was EXACTLY what I was thinking.

I have been spending a lot of time in the find 150' from my front door. The neighbors call me the "frisbee man". I enjoy just throwing and then going an picking up, and throwing again. I have been testing everything that is supposed to go 500'.

As a result I have gotten to be "sort of" pretty long. I can throw 350' dead flat with no wind, EVERY TIME with my 162 Orc. With the wind just right (pushing the ass of the nose down anheyser, I can break 400'. I have thrown 450' less than 10 times (the golf Gods aligned the planets). Does this mean I throw 450'? No. It means I thow 350' until my arm falls off. Any number beyond that is a gift.

Do you say that Tiger drives the ball 450 yards because he has? I saw him on TV. No, check the PGA Tour stats, his average drive is some 150 yards less than that. Can he hit the ball 450 yards? Yes. Given the perfect conditions and attempt. So, this would not be a lie to say Tiger drives the ball 450 yards, but to say that is his drive is misleading at best.

I do know my local courses have distances that are very suspect. One hole is marked 400' and I LITERALLy have thrown it 50 feet past without a grunt, and have gone to using control discs to keep from overflying the basket. Another hole is marked 380' and I have NEVER seen ANYONE drive it pin high. My crushed drives are 50' short. We have one hole in Carrollton that is 487'. Most good players do not even try to throw this far, most just roll. GOOD PLAYERS. I was 30' short and 80' off to the left the other day. It took 5 discs to do it, and a perfect throw.

So, I throw 457'.... and my arm hurts.

Another big subject is AIR DENSITY. Something that never seems to come up in the world of disc golf. I have a releative density meter that I bought for flying (I fly stunt airplane models competitvely). The air changes A LOT. Thinner air means longer throws. More humidity appears to mean more friction (more disc flip), etc. I am VERY happy to be throwing 350', it is not even hot yet.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:29 am

Air density and humidity play apart in distance. I was gonna recommend going slighly lighter with discs to get more distance, but looks like you've already done that.

When you have a break out game or throw, you can definately post it. It's good to be proud of accomplishments. This thread is more humble then the PDGA was.

First think I did when I threw for 300 and parked a disc was post in in a thread somewhere. My normal throws are closer to 250 though.

Most of my distance come with giving the disc enough height. I was taught to throw the disc straight and about 5-10 feet off the ground.

By adding 5 feet to this, I add distance. If I really want to go for distance, I throw about 20-30 feet off the ground though I start to sacrifice control. One problem I am having is when I throw the disc gains altitude (it seems to rise). It is a nose angle issue, I believe.
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Postby Blake_T » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:35 pm

heavier discs are the discs that take most advantage of thicker air because they fly less stable, get more lift (than usual) and carry the most momentum into the later part of flight, where lighter discs do not.

lighter discs are best suited for thinner air since the focus is on penetration and thin air gives less natural lift.
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