I have an issue with the whole "hand not being loose" during the pivot idea. I keep the disc very loose in my hand during the run up, and all the way into the power pocket. I do not grip down tight until the disc has already begun to pivot around my index finger knuckle, and thumb. I actively accelerate through that pivot, then pinch down hard as I begin to open my shoulders(grip is close to 3-4o'clock). I'm not a big man, I weigh about 140lbs, and I'm not a natural athlete, but I'm getting 400-425' throws with a teebird, 450-475' throws with a force(no turn, pure hyzer), and 500'+ with nukes, destroyers, and blizzard discs. I have 2 questions, are the distances indicative of "half-hitting" or "fully-hitting" it? Why is an active disc pivot not something to seek out? My body mechanics are atrocious. I do not follow through with a heel pivot, and I jam my hips, but I have a firm enough grasp on the timing of that loose pivot around my index finger knuckle, that I'm able to hit the above distances with very little run-up. I know they're not record setting throws or anything, but the final revelation that got me to those distances WAS the loose hand, disc pivot. I personally feel that it is all that is needed for a long throw, but that seems to be the opposite of what's being said. When I do the water bottle drill, it stays at the bottom the entire time.