Beginner / Sidearm Bag

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Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:17 pm

I started playing about a month ago and I've acquired about 20 discs so far (it's all I can do to keep myself from buying more every day, I am a sucker for sports that require equipment).

Throwing RHBH I chuck a 166 DX Cobra or 173 Z Buzzz SS about 175'-190'. Throwing a 166 D Cyclone goes about 205'. Shorter approach shots are hit-or-miss in terms of both accuracy and distance.

RHFH on the other hand gets my 173 Z Buzzz SS out over 200' and right on target. Shorter approach shots are accurate and controllable. I'm looking for RHFH driver advice!

I should also mention that RHBH seems to aggregate my right shoulder problems. I broke my clavicle, scapula, and some ribs a few years back and the cross-body motion necessitated by BH (reaching back) causes brachial plexus nerve problems (hand goes numb etc). I know beginners are strongly encouraged to focus on BH for a more well-rounded game (and better D) in the long run, but I'm looking for some short-term gratification right now.

So here's where I could use help. I have a bunch of drivers to choose from. I know some of them are beyond my power/skill level (especially backhand). The course I play most frequently is Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. It's tightly wooded, not too long, and no crazy sharp doglegs. Some L-R tee shots are required, as are some R-L. I'm particularly concerned about covering the longer R-L shots if I'm throwing sidearm.

Available drivers to choose from -- do I have 2 here that could cover the vast majority of shots playing FH only with my skill/power level? Or do I need other low-speed under- or over-stable plastic?

166 D Cyclone (favorite BH but don't like the shape for FH)
168 Champ Leopard
168 Champ Valkyrie
175 Champ Wraith
164 FLX Avenger

I am going out for some field practice tomorrow and expecting that I can cover most stuff, FH-only with the Leo (straight and turn disc) + Valk (fade disc). Thoughts? Suggestions? Admonitions?
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:43 pm

Addendum: my current putter of choice is a 173 Soft X APX. I have 3. I BH spin this disc with a short snappy motion. Putting BH doesn't hurt my shoulder.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby JR » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:48 pm

FH anhyzers=r>l flights need understable low fade low power requirement discs like Leopards. If te Leo doesn't remain annied how do you like the gripping feel of an Avenger SS? It is worlds apart more understable than the regular Avenger.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:03 pm

I like the Buzz and from what I've felt in the store the Avenger SS feels similar...so I think I'd like it.

Sounds like the Leo should hold a R-L line tho if I do it right with a slight anhyzer release? Should I also be able to throw it straight or with a L-R fade if thrown slightly hyzer? Should I try using the Valk for shots that need more fade?
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:28 am

Went out for some sidearm field practice this morning followed by 9 holes (sidearm only).

I got some solid S-curves out of the 168 Champ Leo, out to somewhere around 225'. I don't remember ever really turning it over. On the course I threw this off every tee, trying to shape good lines. Most of these drives were decent. The most troubling were two tee shots tht have an OOB on the right of the fairway and slightly downhill. Both of these drives flew great but as they faded, despite landing in-bounds, they skipped OOB. How can I throw these shots FH but limit the fade, even with the Leo? With more power/snap I assume the fade should decrease with this disc?

The 168 Champ Valk is flying straight with a harder fade, as expected. I threw this a couple times on the field but didn't use it in the round.

The 175 Champ Wraith obviously is too fast for me and dives hard right. I threw this once of the field for fun, then put it away (where it will stay for some time to come).

Shots from the fairway and longer approach hits with the 173 Z Buzzz SS were mixed. I thought I had lots of confidence in this disc but I can't yet always get it to do what I want at varying distances. More field practice at offering distances, throwing hyzer/anhyzer/straight is in order.

My putting game was pretty awesome (for me). Sank a 30-footer on the last basket to beat my buddy by 1 stroke. Shots at 15 ft or less are going in at least 75% of the time <knock on wood>. I'm loving the Soft X APX. Had a good from-the-bushes sidearm soft floatey hyzer chip shot that landed under the pin with the APX also.

Overall I bogied all 9 holes. Horray consistency! My previous best on the same 9 is 6-over, but the last few BH rounds were 12-over, with some trip-bogies. So I like the direction I'm headed with the FH. Might only play once more this week since I'm out of town this weekend.

Questions:
Should I stick with the Leopard and shape those lines, or look at replacing the Leo for now with 2 other discs (one more understable, one more oberstable)? The sporting goods store closeby has the Avenger SS in D and Z, they have the XL in a couple plastics, as well as Pred, Stalker, Flick.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:11 pm

More thoughts: according to the flight chart, the Avenger SS and Valkyrie both have a pwr requirement of 4, ie 275'+. Too bad because I was starting to think the Avenger SS would act just like my Buzz SS but longer. I like the shape & feel of the Buzz. Throwing the Leopard feels more awkward. It's pretty domey. But I guess I stick with it?

http://www.gottagogottathrow.com/discgo ... Chart1.pdf
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:28 pm

Aaaaand more reading on this great forum led me here: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... f3#p154834

I think I will be sticking with the Leo until it just gets too flippy. Then I'll go from there.

Edit: I made the mistake of stopping at Lombardi Sports as I was walking past. I couldn't resist that sexy blue Z plastic. I bought the Avenger SS. I know, it's beyond my speed right now. BUT: I realized that the Champ Leo was giving me barely any additional distance over the Z Buzzz SS, yet hurting my overall game because I was constantly switching between Buzzz and Leo. I need to stick to one disc and just work on form. NOW, my plan is to play Buzzz-only until I am totally confident with it and develop better technique (and therefore power). In the meantime the Avenger SS will stay tucked away in my bag, ready for when I can later utilize it. When that time comes, the shape and feel of the Z Avenger SS is much closer to the Z Buzzz SS, which I hope will mean an easier transition between the two. No more Champ Leo, no more overlap. Problem solved?
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby JR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:16 am

MrSpeedyB wrote:I like the Buzz and from what I've felt in the store the Avenger SS feels similar...so I think I'd like it.

Sounds like the Leo should hold a R-L line tho if I do it right with a slight anhyzer release? Should I also be able to throw it straight or with a L-R fade if thrown slightly hyzer? Should I try using the Valk for shots that need more fade?


Affirmative.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby JR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:38 am

If you can throw the APX sidearm (flippy and unforgiving) the Buzzz should be great. Grip is very important so the Leo while ok and demanding form wise for FH should be easy to replace with the Buzzz. Throw the Avenger SS. Frankly the power requirement on the flight chart doesn't mean much. It is low power easy to flip disc so you should practice with it. Good for hard finishes but not so early as the Wraith. Not nearly as early. Or they have started to make them less flippy. This site abbreviates that disc as an ASS for a reason. It flies like one for even moderately powerful throwers unless going for rollers. For power throwers it is a roller when new.

A DX Leo breaks in quick and should be great if the Champ fades out too early. A video might help to see if we can give you pointers on how the get more distance and master the Champion Leo. The way you grip the disc may also change the disc to be comfortably grippable. YMMV because hand and finger size matters.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:00 am

So my sidearm driving didn't pan out as I had hoped. Adding power introduced all kinds of OAT and other problems, worse than my backhand. I also saw a doctor and acupuncturist about my shoulder and it's back at full strength (although I continue to be careful with it).

Upshot: I'm back to RHBH for most of my game. I'm more confident with sidearm than I was before and it has been a great tool when the scenario dictates.

I've been having moderate success and improving consistency with this setup:

154 DX Cheetah - all tee shots and long second shots
150 D Buzzz - anything 150' or less including sidearm
173 X APX - putt and approach within 50'

My biggest limiter has been the approach shots with the Buzzz. The lightweight base plastic Buzzz turns a ton for me, and although it does come back, the lack of HSS gives me unpredictable shots. I should probably be throwing the APX for those 75' approach shots but it feels too far for my fan grip and I don't feel comfortable with any other grip on the APX (or other putters).

I just ordered some slightly heavier discs and will get to throwing them next week:

165 DX Cheetah - I like the Cheetah so I got a heavier one
166 Millenium Polaris LS - hoping this will be very similar to the Cheetah but feel more like Star plastic
166 S MD2 Fiend - really stoked for this disc and hope it will be more predictable
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby JR » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:53 pm

Fan grip is usable on moderately tall putters but life is so much easier with thin putters so i'd check out the feel of the XD, Spike and Wedge.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:04 am

M-PLS, DX Cheetah, and P-MD2 arrived! I played my first round today plus some field throwing yesterday (all RHBH except for the odd approach shit that needed a forehand).

I *love* the 166 P-MD2. Goes where I want. This is my first mid in the 165g range and it's spot on (previously only threw 150 and 173+ mids).

The 165 DX Cheetah throws great with my current power, and I don't have to overclock it to the point of inaccuracy. The DX on this disc feels a little gummier or softer or flexible than other DX I've had and I like it (it's kind of off-white). Not waxy hard like the 154 Cheetah or 150 Shark.

Now the 166 M-PLS I don't know what to do with. I stilldon't throw 250' so I feel I have to crank this harder than I can really throw, so I end up spraying it left or right or up or into the ground and it totally borks my form. I know it's still a slow driver but it feels like it needs more power vs the Cheetah. Is this true for others? Should I sideline this now until I start to outgrow the Cheetah? I've read the comments that the Polaris is a "premium plastic Cheetah" so I was hoping I could jump right into throwing it well, but I also saw Blake's disc speed / throwing power thread reply from back in the day, that indicated the PLS does indeed require more distance potential to throw as intended.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby JR » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:15 am

All of the observations you made make sense to me despite only having heard others describe the Polaris never throwing it.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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2013 Update

Postby MrSpeedyB » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:03 pm

My game as come quite a long way over the last six months, thanks in large part to reading the archives on these forums (and playing plenty of disc golf!).

My current setup is as follows:

—Drivers
167 S Valk (max d driver / 275')
168 C Teebird (overstable driver / 250')
168 S Leo (control driver / 250')

—Mids
168 P MD2 (stable mid / 210')
167 P MD2 (understable mid / 210')

—Putter
168 S Aviar PnA (all approach and putting / 150')

I've been getting comfortable discing down—using my Aviar more and more for longer approach shots out to 100', and throwing the MD2 off the tee on shorter holes. My average scores have dropped a handful of strokes, but my next step is gaining more accuracy off the tee. My home course is Golden Gate Park in SF and tightly wooded, so an errant drive that's off my 5' either direction often adds one or two unnecessary strokes.

I also ditched my beloved Soft APX's in favor of the Aviar to reduce molds and get more comfortable with the Aviar in a wider range of situations.

Next thoughts are trying out a PD (S or C?) once my power/distance improves and the Champ Teebird becomes straighter (as opposed to an overstable disc for me). I love the feel (and look) of the Yeti Pro Aviars, and I need a few more copies of my main putter, so I might mess around with those at the shop in my quest for an awesomesauce putter.
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Re: Beginner / Sidearm Bag

Postby MrSpeedyB » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:37 pm

So I replaced the beadless Star Aviar with a pair of KC Pro & Yeti Aviars, and man do I love those discs.

Here's the question I'm facing right now: which driver should I add at the "top" of my bag?

I'm thinking it makes sense to have a disc that I can pull out for wide-open max D shots, and if I'm ever playing in a ton of wind. I've had the Star Valk (167g) in there, but it has to be a perfect s-curve throw for me to get it out any further than my TB/Leo.

Would a 167g S PD be a useful addition at my power level—as a wide-open distance and/or wind-fighting disc?

I also have a 164g FLX Avenger, and a 167g Z Avenger SS that could fill this "experimental" spot in my bag.

Any advice or recommendations?

—Drivers
[?]
168 C Teebird (overstable driver / 250')
168 S Leo (control driver / 250')

—Mids
168 P MD2 (stable mid / 210')
167 P MD2 (understable mid / 210')

—Putters
168 KC Pro Aviar (approach / 150')
170 Yeti Pro Aviar (putting / 50')
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