A few vids for critique

Post your videos for Critique/Comment etc..

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JR » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:36 pm

The center of the pivot is not at the right side put a little forward. Right heel through the shin and knee extending the line through the right arm pit is the center of the pivot. Roughly because the plant step length varies with varying speed.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JeffzeNub » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:09 pm

Okay I think I might be making progress. I may have reverted back to a few old habits in some of the throws, but there are a few in there that might not be too bad.
I changed the timing of my plant step a bit which makes everything feel a bit awkward, but when I get it right I can tell the difference. I probably need to do some more right pec drills as I think I am taking off of the line too early.

However, my disc tends to wobble out of my hand when I feel that snap, is this because I am not keeping the disc level through out the pull?




The standstill @:58? Am I practicing correct form at least?
JeffzeNub
Noob
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Chucktown, SC
Favorite Disc: Teebird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:46 am

That 58 second throw was pretty good for an approach shot. The hips point in the same direction as the knees all the time. Late in the throw and in the follow through should have the hips point to the right of the knees and the shoulders should move even more to the right of the hips. I couldn't see for sure with the grass how flat footed you were but it would be much better to raise the ball of the right foot for the foot pivot. The throws with the run ups were all annied in running direction (see my signature) and the stomach and lower back muscles need to be tighter when the plant step lands to eliminate your tendency to tilt to the right at the hips. You are making progress good job!

Regarding the wobble your arm drops lower in the follow through than in the earlier parts of the throw and that tilts the disc so it wobbles as it spins. The follow through should happen on the same plane as the early part of the throw. Rotating the thumb down right after the rip cleans up the release a lot and allows the shoulder blade to move much more unimpeded by the back muscles. That almost doubles the arm follow through movement range thus easing troubles coming from short follow throughs. Like a sudden arm stop when the shoulder blade jams against upper back muscles and the upper body and the arm bounces changing the angle that the disc leaves at and pulling the fingers at the disc into a different direction than intended inducing torque in another plane than around the center of the disc. Also known as off axis torque. A little more wrist tension can protect against wrist rolls that also cause OAT=off axis torque.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JeffzeNub » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:36 am

JR wrote:The throws with the run ups were all annied in running direction (see my signature)...


Should I be practicing just straight shots? Or mix it up?

JR wrote: and the stomach and lower back muscles need to be tighter when the plant step lands to eliminate your tendency to tilt to the right at the hips.


So my hips should be rotating towards my target instead of tilting? I just want a visual of what you mean by tighten stomach and lower back muscles. I think it is that old habit of "pushing" the disc.
JeffzeNub
Noob
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Chucktown, SC
Favorite Disc: Teebird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JR » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:42 pm

Flat shots are the most difficult to perform and give the best visual cue as to a form failure because everyone can distinguish a flat and a non flat shots. Also look at the placement of the disc on a flat vs non flat shot. Flat shots have the least margin of error angle wise and the most missing distance per a degree of miss. Especially so with an understable disc and headwinds. Eventually you need to train all angles. But for form changing and improving the flat shots are the best self diagnostic tool when you follow the flight of the disc it can often tell you where you made a mistake.

Standing at attention is what i'm getting at with added balance maintaining muscle tightness. You should be straight up like the letter I. now you lean the the right from the hips like this: /
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby Redisculous » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:31 pm

Your weight is still too centered throughout your throw, It isn't far enough back at reachback, or far enough forward at the end of your throw. As JR said, getting your weight forward has nothing to do with leaning. You want to be balanced above your left foot at reachback, and right foot through the pivot.

If you insist on using a runup when you practice, try to take a longer crossover step (push off harder with your right leg and reach further behind you with your left, you may have to get a little lower to the ground to pull it off), and a shorter plant step. This will put you more over that rear foot when it lands, netting some more forward momentum into the plant, and make it easier to get your weight forward when it needs to be. You're already developing a pivot hop step when you runup, which is good go with it. If you haven't seen Feldbergs video on that, you might want to check it out.

One of the things that really jumps out at me is the way your left foot is already dragging behind you , when it needs to still be firmly on the ground, pushing your hips forward to aid/initiate a strong follow through. I could be wrong but I think that means you burned up all your hip power earlier in the throw, and your upper boddy is pulling your lower body around, when it needs to be the other way around.

There's a couple key concepts missing from your throw, and they're just not something that you'll stumble across randomly practicing in the field unless you've got a sports background or a lot of natural ability, of which I have neither. I had to practice for ages to incorporate them into my throw, which looked similar to yours a couple years ago.

I already basically posted this same thing in another thread but I'll see if I do a better job of explaining it this time. Check this thread out for original content: http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16139&start=165

Image

The short version is goes something like this.

Simply planting from full reachback(1), and NOT trying to twist or turn or do anything but shift your weight, will turn your hips and shoulders 90 degrees, generating enough momentum for you to sling your arm all the way out to the right side(2-4). Notice how the hips are not leading, and the shoulders do not rotate as the disc goes across the chest. Keep in mind that in frame 4 (this is where your foot is trailing behind)you need to be in position with your lower body PUSH the hips around/forward with the rear leg (think of them being on a hinge with your right leg/hip). 4-5 is where you should feel the big coil/uncoil, which is greatly aided by your weight going forward. This is what lets you accelerate into/through the direction change of the arm, which is what really throws the disc, which gets a great illustration on page 3 of this thread http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24903



You're making progress, keep at it. I hope this helps.
Anode | Comet | Axis |Vector | PPD | SPD | CPD
Redisculous
Fairway Surgeon
User avatar
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:17 am
Location: Southern Wisconsin, where the best courses are in Illinois!
Favorite Disc: Axis

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby seabas22 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:57 pm

Sorry but much of that info is misguided/misinterpreted. His weight is not centered at all dynamically which is the main problem. He is trying to reachback too far with the upper body (or trying too shift his weight back too far), instead of pivoting his whole body backward maintaining good posture of the spine and balance. Once you lose that balance and posture in the backswing the rest of the throw is done fore and he gets his weight stuck back instead of transferring forward correctly. The spine shouldn't sway back and forth from reachback through the finish too much, you want a tight axis to pivot back and forth through to maximize torque efficiency and end lever speed.

Weight transfer and forward momentum are not quite the same thing. Weight transfer is more of what happens through gravity, up and down, and though compression through the ground like a centripetal pump. Johnny Miller calls the first move in ball golf a gravity move. You can have all the forward momentum in the world, but never transfer your weight through the shot. Weight transfer would be a measure like putting two bathroom scales under your feet. Forward momentum alone over the scales could produce maybe a 100% reading your body weight assuming you were able to maintain balance and posture which requires stopping your forward momentum balanced on one leg to get that reading or it will only read 100% weight for a split second. If you jump up and land balanced on the scales you will get a increasingly higher weight reading according to how high you jumped off the scales that then equal more than your body weight coming back down until your momentum bounces back up through the ground and then past your dynamic center of gravity(Once your weight has bounced past your dynamic center of gravity, you are virtually weightless and able to pivot the front foot effortlessly and it just happens by being balanced dynamically). Think about that...your weight on the front scale can be over 100% your body weight longer than just a forward movement over the scale which might get you 100%, and you still could still have weight on the rear scale with the rear foot pushing through the shot.

So from the backswing the rear leg can have more than own body weight on it from pushing up/hopping, as you are adding g force to the scale to lift your weight or raise your center of gravity vertically. Then landing on the forward foot you should be able to get that same reading of over 100% body weight landing balanced on the front scale. Adding forward momentum to that and getting that same vertical weight transfer requires you to be braced and balanced from the rear foot to the front foot through the spine with good posture. Otherwise if you don't brace properly through the sides, your forward momentum will just slid over the scale and reduce weight transfer, or redirect elsewhere.

If you squat over the rear leg without an upward move that extends your weight or center of gravity up before the top of the backswing, your lower center of gravity then limits weight transfer available to the front foot/side. This is why you will often see a hop in the backswing and always a lowering of the body/head through the hit with the top throwers. Weight assistance to the throw happens more up and down through centripetal pump increasing rotational speed(like pumping your legs up and down on a swing to go faster/higher), rather than linearly forward. Forward momentum helps generate inertia and dictate the trajectory.
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JR » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:01 am

The plant step of a top javelin thrower lands like he were standing in place with that single leg and he weighed over a 1000 kilos. You do generate more power by leaning back a lot in the reach back and shifting that weight back to front to being upright for the foot pivot. It is a matter of bracing the left leg landing in the x step to be able to shift upright from the momentum. Once the plant step has landed and you need to start the foot pivot the left leg pushes forward. So you can have your cake and eat it too by shifting back to front and pivoting properly as long as you time things right.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JeffzeNub » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:16 pm

Okay so, got some practice in today, made a few videos, this is the first. You can see the sun flare in the background, and it only gets worse as the sun continues to descend, so you cannot really see anything in the other videos. However, I did a lot of slow motion throws to warm up and try to work on mechanics and there are a few slow throws I do at the beginning(I would edit these vids, but that takes time and it takes forever to upload to youtube).

So today was one of my most successful days. I definitely threw the furthest I have ever thrown, but more importantly I was consistent and much more accurate than usual.

I also see where I still have some bad habits(lazy weight transfer, stiff upper body, slow SNAP), but I can see a lot of things I have improved on just from correct mechanics practice. My toe-heel pivot is one of those things that I don't have to think about anymore. In most of the throws I did not hold the heel spin for the entire follow through because I was ripping the grass up in little circles all over the sideline of the soccer fields(its that thin, shitty grass).

Lazy throws until about 1:50

Longest throw @2:24 I walked off about 360'



PS-I will try to put a bit more power in my throws next time and see if the weight transfer thing will come naturally.

Again, I am grateful to have found such a helpful community, thanks again!
JeffzeNub
Noob
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Chucktown, SC
Favorite Disc: Teebird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby seabas22 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:39 pm

And again! Can see some progress, but still just need to keep working on more of the same things. Your front heel is spinning out, instead of pivoting. As is your rear foot. You need to hold your balance over the rear foot better and longer before transferring it forward. You are trying to push from your rear heel, which doesn't really engage the hips. Stay on your rear toes! Also let the disc come to your chest from pure momentum instead of bringing the disc to your chest with your arm, then you actively throw. You might also want to try a pre-swing and work your body around the disc like Feldy to help with balance and rhythm.
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby seabas22 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:50 pm

JR wrote:The plant step of a top javelin thrower lands like he were standing in place with that single leg and he weighed over a 1000 kilos. You do generate more power by leaning back a lot in the reach back and shifting that weight back to front to being upright for the foot pivot. It is a matter of bracing the left leg landing in the x step to be able to shift upright from the momentum. Once the plant step has landed and you need to start the foot pivot the left leg pushes forward. So you can have your cake and eat it too by shifting back to front and pivoting properly as long as you time things right.

A javelin throw is also overhanded as opposed to a backhand, so there's some differences in leverages through the ground and body. Shifting weight back in an overhanded throw is much easier to maintain posture and balance throughout the throw. In a backhand throw I wouldn't suggest shifting weight backwards much except in a standstill, but I'd say it's a pivoting transfer of weight to the rear foot, rather than an actual shifting backward.
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JR » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:59 am

I gave the javelin throw as an example of forces involved and the need to brace. Weight shifting from a long leaning back at the reach back is useful for maximum distance shots. Not good for accuracy and consistency in approach drives and shorter shots. The weight shift needs to be passive from the momentum in a direct line back to upright movement. Only then you push actively from the left toe switching the weight shift direction to a rotation to the right. so you do have both linear followed by rotational weight shift.

Jeff the steps each should land on the balls of the feet alone. No heels touching the ground except in the plant step after it has landed with the right toe inner (left) side.

Slow throws not enough elbow forward and the hips and the shoulders are still asleep. I'd concentrate on twisting the hips in the next session. Then the shoulders once you're able to engage the shoulders. At times your head gets stuck in place with the nose pointing upwards while the body runs forward away from the head. That influences aiming so neck posture upright is also something to work on.

The longest throw had better elbow lead and a hint of hip twist in the follow through so it was from momentum and not adding much but it is a start. Next earlier hip twist with way more force. Think of being scared shitless crossing over rails and hearing a train honk at you from 10'. The flinching turning toward the sound is as quick as pulling the hand away from fire. That kind of mental image needs to be the goal for the quickness initially. That kind of 100 % speed ain't controllable but first you need to find your maximum before you know what 80 % feels like.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11529
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JeffzeNub » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:10 am

I feel like I have a better grasp on what I am doing right/wrong. I think if I can work on some step timing, I still feel like I'm not "cocking" after my plant step lands, which I think will help with my weight shift and my pivot. My snap comes with much less effort and my consistency is much better. My goal really wasn't to break 400' or anything, I just wanted a better mental image of what I should be doing.

It will probably be a week or so before I have another video up. I need to get some practice in and see if I can make some bigger improvements before asking for more critique. Thanks again guys and I will have something up soon!
JeffzeNub
Noob
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Chucktown, SC
Favorite Disc: Teebird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby JeffzeNub » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:16 pm

So it has been a long time since I have gotten a video up...My gf dropped my gopro in the ocean and my iphone isnt quite as convenient, but I did make a video today on my phone, but you cannot see my feet : /.

When I was making all those videos, my throw was changing constantly so it made playing on the course kind of difficult, so I took some time away from the field and just enjoyed disc golf. My throw has gotten better, but I still have a lot of the same things to work on. I am still having trouble from right pec on. Its like my upper body wants to continue forward with my arm and I bend at the waist towards my target instead of whipping my arm around my body. Anyways, I will try to get another video up on a concrete pad. Thanks in advance!


PS - I also threw a non run up at the end, I can throw standing still ~300 and my run up throw about 350' so I figure I have to be doing something wrong.

JeffzeNub
Noob
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:25 pm
Location: Chucktown, SC
Favorite Disc: Teebird

Re: A few vids for critique

Postby seabas22 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:29 pm

Your balance and posture are off and your hips are out of control. Watch your hips in the follow through compared to any top thrower and you will see how far your hips move around. It will feel totally different and probably weird once you start moving in the right direction. Your arm swing is not all on plane either, which is probably a compensation for your hips.

Skip in to 2:30:
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

PreviousNext

Return to Video Critique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests