Let's talk it out...

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Let's talk it out...

Postby Hoey » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:04 pm

I thought this might be a good idea for a thread where you'd like to get something off your chest, without necessarily needing any kind of feedback. Although perhaps someone can chime in and leave some information you hadn't thought of or didn't know.

or maybe it's a stupid idea and you should say that was a stupid idea hoey.

Rant activated!


Anyways... I'll go first.

First off, I feel like I'm a pretty good player, but I have a hard time actually doing well when it counts. I feel that some percentage of that is due to not completely understanding (inside and out) the discs I'm throwing.
When I worked at Marshall Street I was constantly trying out all the new discs that came in because, well, they were new and shiny... but I felt like I should know the discs customers would ask me about. Duh right?

I guess I'm finally coming to the point in my disc golf career, where I'm just gonna hunker down, and find the right molds that work in my best interests. It's kind of a no brainer, but it's hard with the temptation of trying out new technology... plus there's like what, a dozen or more options for each "slot" in your bag? With so many good companies out there producing so many competent models, how in the world are we supposed to find the ones that work best for us?

It's been in the back of my head for awhile now, and I've been drifting towards this conclusion for some time now without even realizing it.

To back up for a moment... It took like 11 years to finally decide on a putter that worked well for me (P2). I swear I've tried them all... and this is just for a putter.

But some pieces are starting to fall together...

The PD I feel now has a permanent spot in my bag... A fresh SPD, a used and beat SPD, and a beat PPD.

I've loved Latitude and Westside drivers... After trying the Halo and Havoc and the Flow, I think I've found a home with the Sword.

And the Fuse has been in my bag since it came out...

And I've recently been courting the Warship... and I think this. is. the. one.

*fingers crossed*

Then you have the XXX and Trident...

I'm sensing a pattern here...

That just leaves my beat pro destroyer and roadrunner in my bag that's not "from across the pond."

My realization: Keep it simple (sorry millennium). If I can choose from a smaller pool of choices for a certain slot, I'll understand those discs better, and therefore execute shots with more precision from being more familiar with them.

I've always laughed at those threads asking which disc is like this disc from another company. For example, Which Daredevil disc fliess just like a Buzzz?

You like the Buzzz, throw the Buzzz...
or
You're not sponsored, who cares?

But I guess this would have to be my little twist on that...

And don't get me wrong, it's not like I wouldn't throw other discs from other companies from time to time. But I feel like this is a step in the right direction (for me) to stop sucking less.

But between Discmania, Westside, and Latitude 64, I believe they each have all the slots and different shots covered. And perhaps I couldn't have said this a year or two ago, but now... I believe they got me covered.

I'll be able to whittle down the different plastics and weights that work best for me, and will actually be able to keep and cycle through used to beat discs more often, if I'm not going back and forth to this and who knows what.

So that's been my active stream of consciousness lately, and I needed to "put it out there."
It's definitely been in the back of my head recently, and maybe by putting it "out there" I'll be able to look at it again, and see if I'm onto something, or perhaps even maybe missing something.


I thought about doing a What's in my bag thread... but that's just not me. My "bag" would be changed and edited more often than..... oh I don't know... something that gets changed and edited really often.

But with this plan, I hope to have a solid bag that I know inside and out within a year.
That's sure to shave off a couple strokes or three in the long run...
And that could mean the difference between cashing.. and not.


Perhaps someone has already been in this position and can offer some sort of insight?




Perhaps you have something you'd like to "put out there?"
Throw discs, and forget about life for awhile...
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby keltik » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:30 pm

why do people that can only throw a Nuke SS 250 feet shoot better scores than I do?

I just don't have the time or the freedom to play serious practice rounds. I can't get out of work in time to make it to any leagues. I got kids to feed. I just don't want to resign myself to playing rec/novice until I age out into Masters. I feel like I should be better than I am. I guess I'm wrong.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby Jesse B 707 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:47 pm

keltik wrote:why do people that can only throw a Nuke SS 250 feet shoot better scores than I do?

I just don't have the time or the freedom to play serious practice rounds. I can't get out of work in time to make it to any leagues. I got kids to feed. I just don't want to resign myself to playing rec/novice until I age out into Masters. I feel like I should be better than I am. I guess I'm wrong.

Slow everything down and don't try as hard, especially on your drives, just try to gently snap it out there on a good line. Unless it's your get out of trouble/upshot game that is fucking you, if so work on that lol
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby JR » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:51 am

This thread is a good idea.

Hoey how about detailing exactly what you need in writing over time on different courses writing down every variable and maybe making a spreadsheet? When you can cover mostly everything or everything without carrying a stores content worth of discs you know you're set.

Wind direction (try each) and speed, bumping and dipping, flipping amount/not flipping after how many feet did the disc flip and by how many degrees, how many feet of turn and after how many feet did the disc start to flex, when it became flat, how much of fade in feet and where it landed, in which direction it skipped and how far (approximation because it is difficult to see from distance), apex height... For annies in which angle the disc left, nose angle, how many feet of l>r movement after how many feet of distance, does it flex and after how much powering down it will flex by how many feet and in which angle it lands, rolling or not, which direction and how many feet, how many feet of l>r movement, gripping friendliness, sticking, slipping...

This might be overkill in getting to know your discs but at least then you do. Instead of making a list that takes a life time to complete try to limit to essentials. I haven't done this in this detail but you can do it in the head if your memory or retries are plentiful enough. That is how i narrowed down the list. So far it seems that there are so many so close models for many slots that one could use any as long as grip doesn't disagree. And many can learn to adjust to unfriendly shapes over time.

Keltik: Don't take extra putts, that's 18 strokes per round. Hit the gaps even if it means powering down and not reaching. At least if there is penalizing rough or OB around. Distance with accuracy comes over time. The more D you have the farther you'll get with accurate power. Practice approaching because you don't wanna give up strokes there especially if you can't hit the gaps at controllable power to reach the basket. An added bonus is that you don't need to hit so many putts when you're within dropping distance.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby money 21 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:23 am

I am taking a similar direction to hoey. with a little different approach. Over the last couple years I have played bad during the final rounds. Luckly my firsts rounds have been good enought for me to place in the receive script category but i should have been compeating for contention. I have fallen into the trying lots of new disc but have noticed a pattern. I seem to keep going back to a couple discs. So here is my new plan I am not going to carry more then 13 discs and and no more then 7 molds. so i bought a fade light bag and put 2 of the accrodina dividers in it one with 5 slots one with six. so far I have
drivers sugres
fairway xs boatman
mid stingrays (super and regular I am calling one mold) zones
putters voodoo
utility trident
under stable glide
Summit, money, vp, flying squirrel, ibex, obex, sharp shooter #2, trak, ascent, seacert weapon, vulture, unlace, lace, olace, solace, Prometheus
i have seen monkey sh!t fights at the zoo more orginized then this.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby slowarm » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:26 pm

I'm a sucker for trying new stuff, especially fast drivers...and by the end of the season I always find out that my best rounds I've done with the same old worn discs I've been playing with a long time - and none of them is faster than speed 7. I think I could do just fine with a Wiz, MD2 and a couple of TBs.

Yesterday I was showing our local course to two friends of mine that haven't played a lot. We played half a round with only putters. I was at +1 after the front-9, playing with a fresh Wizard. My record for the full course -with a full bag- is +3. I don't know if I was glad or sad that we didn't have time for the back-9.

---------
Edit: Oops, I do carry a FB, but even if it's speed 9, I don't consider or use it as a "distance driver". I can throw a TB a lot further.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby 7ontheline » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:27 pm

Hoey, once your settle on the molds you feel confident have your slots covered, my suggestion is to get several backups (hopefully in the same run) so you'll have plenty others to cycle through.

Keltik, kids do make it harder. Be happy and remember to do "it" while you can because one day you won't be able to.


So... my wife plays a lot of sand volleyball, like everyday. She's smoking'. Back off knuckleheads :!: Anyways, we have a pool and are only a few minutes from the sand courts and her hot bikini girlfriends are always coming over to hang out, drink a few adult beverages, and let their hair down after a sweaty workout.

Sounds like no problem, right? Well... on second thought Hoey some slots may only ever need one driver :roll:
Magic / Judge / PA2 - Tursas / QMS / Buzzz / Mace - QJ / E / F - Renegade / O / D1

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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby Mark Ellis » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:01 am

Hoey wrote:First off, I feel like I'm a pretty good player, but I have a hard time actually doing well when it counts. I feel that some percentage of that is due to not completely understanding (inside and out) the discs I'm throwing.
When I worked at Marshall Street I was constantly trying out all the new discs that came in because, well, they were new and shiny... but I felt like I should know the discs customers would ask me about. Duh right?

I guess I'm finally coming to the point in my disc golf career, where I'm just gonna hunker down, and find the right molds that work in my best interests. It's kind of a no brainer, but it's hard with the temptation of trying out new technology... plus there's like what, a dozen or more options for each "slot" in your bag? With so many good companies out there producing so many competent models, how in the world are we supposed to find the ones that work best for us?

Perhaps someone has already been in this position and can offer some sort of insight?


There are interrelated questions arising from from this post: which disc to put in your bag and how many ; which molds to use and how many: when to try out and/or switch to new discs; performing under pressure.

My guess at he most important factor which ties all the questions together and perhaps answers them? Learning and developing confidence in individual discs.

A couple years back I was doing a lot of testing of new molds and runs for my sponsor, Discraft. For a time it was messing with my head (and arm). The arm part was just the strain of throwing so many shots. The head part stemmed from a tendency which I think many players have, including me, of becoming too easily infatuated with a new disc. Then if you try something out and like it why not add it to the bag? And since you can't carry unlimited numbers of discs, when you add a new disc what comes out?

What helped me overcome this and also do a better job of evaluating new discs was the process I developed for testing. Whatever the category of new disc, I first threw the same category of discs from my tournament bag, basically throwing them flat and straight and watching the flight path. Then I tested the new discs, throwing them just the same way. This gave me a better idea of how consistent I was throwing and what the new disc really did. Just like a poor throw teaches you little about a disc, so too do inconsistent throws teach little.

By incorporating my known and trusted discs into the testing process it reminded me how good they were and how well I controlled them. Even if a new disc flew great as well I realized that the discs in my bag were known quantities under many different conditions (wind and speed being the most important variables). Now it became much harder to kick any of the first string out of the bag for promising newcomers.

The number of molds in my bag is irrelevant to me. The number of known and proven individual discs is what matters. Two discs from the same mold can vary and any disc in your bag changes as it breaks in. So replacing a disc is slow process of finding a close substitute and then learning it well (unless you have a system of backups, which I do but still backups by their nature are not as well known and trusted). The trust part is important because it affects your confidence in a shot and thus your performance under pressure.

So trying out new discs and new molds is fun but if scoring well under pressure is your top priority then you have to know and trust the discs you use. For me this means I have to put in the time to develop that trust under varying conditions.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby keltik » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:08 pm

7ontheline wrote:Hoey, once your settle on the molds you feel confident have your slots covered, my suggestion is to get several backups (hopefully in the same run) so you'll have plenty others to cycle through.

Keltik, kids do make it harder. Be happy and remember to do "it" while you can because one day you won't be able to.


So... my wife plays a lot of sand volleyball, like everyday. She's smoking'. Back off knuckleheads :!: Anyways, we have a pool and are only a few minutes from the sand courts and her hot bikini girlfriends are always coming over to hang out, drink a few adult beverages, and let their hair down after a sweaty workout.

Sounds like no problem, right? Well... on second thought Hoey some slots may only ever need one driver :roll:


yeah we're gonna need some pictures of this goings on. just for uh verification of your uh problems. :twisted:
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby money 21 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:39 pm

the reason I am limiting molds and discs is that I am in a similar boat to keltik. I have 3 kidds under 9 and am going to qualify for masters in 2013. The best finish i have had in the last couple year is a 3rd place ( lost to a couple of 19 year olds I had taught to play 2 years ago) do to some struggle with confidence leading up to the event I only threw 7 disc in the whole tourney. I think the simpler i ca n keep my bag for the moment the better.

Following some of Marks advice I took out some new discs and threw them side by side with some old favorites. What happened was some old favorites end up back in the bag.
Summit, money, vp, flying squirrel, ibex, obex, sharp shooter #2, trak, ascent, seacert weapon, vulture, unlace, lace, olace, solace, Prometheus
i have seen monkey sh!t fights at the zoo more orginized then this.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby Jeronimo » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:46 pm

Just as a side note: Sirloin steak tips wrapped in bacon cooked on the grill is AMAZING.

Continue...
I am dumb.

...and a drama queen.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby JR » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:16 am

Jeronimo wrote:Just as a side note: Sirloin steak tips wrapped in bacon cooked on the grill is AMAZING.

Continue...


Bastard here i am trying to bring down cholesterol levels and you drop this... :shock:
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby Frank Delicious » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:14 am

I've already hunkered down and decided to keep my molds the same for a few years now. The only disc I am thinking of replacing long run is the SOLF because the newer runs are all over the place. I have 4 1.3s and none of them fly the same. I have a bunch of 1.1 back ups but down the road has to be considered so right now I am trying out the starfire and hoping for the volt to work also.

The last major change to the bag was going back to aviars from wizards after I decided it was too much of a hassle to get good wizards when aviars are easy to come by.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby money 21 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:53 am

easy to come by has alot to be said for it. that is why i changed for the trident to the banshee.
Summit, money, vp, flying squirrel, ibex, obex, sharp shooter #2, trak, ascent, seacert weapon, vulture, unlace, lace, olace, solace, Prometheus
i have seen monkey sh!t fights at the zoo more orginized then this.
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Re: Let's talk it out...

Postby warobert » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:04 pm

I was trying to do the same with my bag, but the cobra retool sneaked into my bag in the "I want to throw a roc but the ceiling is too damn low" slot. Also, I thank FrankD every round for switching away from wizards and trading me the best putters I have every putted with. I had some bitching driving wizards too until opto pures happened. Now all I have is a really big stack of awesome putting putters!

Frank Delicious wrote:I've already hunkered down and decided to keep my molds the same for a few years now. The only disc I am thinking of replacing long run is the SOLF because the newer runs are all over the place. I have 4 1.3s and none of them fly the same. I have a bunch of 1.1 back ups but down the road has to be considered so right now I am trying out the starfire and hoping for the volt to work also.

The last major change to the bag was going back to aviars from wizards after I decided it was too much of a hassle to get good wizards when aviars are easy to come by.
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