Help needed

Post your videos for Critique/Comment etc..

Moderators: Timko, Solty, Frank Delicious, Blake_T, Fritz, Booter

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:32 pm

Hmm interesting bacause it has been said before but I just didnt really get why I shuld reach further back.
Basicly you mean that I dont transfer my weight correct/enough. During my reachback my weight is still to much in front and therefore Im getting out
of balance because theres really not much weight to transfer. When I try the Hogan drill from the video, I can feel the difference between not having
transfered the weight enough to the backfoot (short reachback) and the reachback were I start with the weight on the backfoot and actually just switch
the weight foreward by rotating the right hip and keep the left hip pretty much stationary.
Is this understood correctly?
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby seabas22 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:42 am

I think you got it or right track at least.
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:42 am

Thank you Seabas.
Ill focus more on the weight transfer in the coming practise sessions.
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby iacas » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:05 am

A huge weight transfer isn't needed in golf. In fact, a lot of PGA Tour pros will only measure 55% of their weight on their trail foot at the top of the backswing (pressure is different - that number gets to 65 to 70%). If your head stays relatively still as most PGA Tour player's heads do, their "weight transfer" back during the backswing is limited to how much they move their hips back (Sergio Garcia, Colin Montgomerie). (Their arms turning back contributes a small % to the "weight" transfer.)

So while they get to 55% trail at the top of the backswing, at impact they're at 85-95% pressure forward (weight is close to these numbers here). That's a weight transfer of about 30-40%, from centered to "pretty well forward." Note of course that "weight" and "pressure" are very different things in a dynamic system, and our feel for pressure is often not at all close to what a force plate would measure (bend joints tend to feel more pressure due to active muscle engagement over straight joints, which can rely on the bones to support pressure/weight without muscle involvement).

Now, golf has the constraint of the ball sitting on the grass and thus needing to be able to control the contact point to within a sixteenth of an inch or so, so it behooves the golfer not to move his head around much (because the center of his shoulders then moves, which makes the arc of his swing less predictable and tougher to time). Disc golf isn't quite as strict in this regard. But that's obvious, isn't it? Golfers don't have any run-up, ever, unless they're doing a Happy Gilmore for the fun of it during a practice session. :)

I fight the comparison to other sports fairly often in golf instruction - too many times people say you want to "swing like baseball player hitting the ball" or "transfer your weight like a pitcher" but the motions have enough fundamental differences that they don't really relate all that well.

Anyway, if this is too much of a threadjack or is off topic or frankly is just dumb rambling, delete it. I hope not to have done any of those things, and it's just my intent to help a bit.
Erik from Erie, PA • PDGA #55398

Erie Disc Golf on FacebookOn the Web
iacas
Tree Magnet
User avatar
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:52 am
Location: Erie, PA
Favorite Disc: Volt

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:04 am

While I do understand that Golf and Disc golf have differences, there are some similarities.
If you for e.g. throw from a standstill posistion the similarities are closer.
I do understand your point though, but if one can distinguish the differences there are some
basic principles that are alike.

P.S.
Funny that the guy on your webpage looks very much like a player that plays here in Copenhagen.
Is that a picture of you or?

Edit:
Just found out that theres a new picture every time I update your site.
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby iacas » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:05 am

fusan wrote:While I do understand that Golf and Disc golf have differences, there are some similarities.
If you for e.g. throw from a standstill posistion the similarities are closer.
I do understand your point though, but if one can distinguish the differences there are some
basic principles that are alike.


I agree that there are some basic principles. I think disc golf has a LOT more to do with throwing a baseball than hitting a golf ball. The golf swing is a LOT more rotational and disc golf, it seems to me right now, is a LOT more linear - the disc gets put on a line and you deliver your force along that line. The forces we ideally apply to a golf club are along a plane and resulting in a radial motion.

fusan wrote:P.S.
Funny that the guy on your webpage looks very much like a player that plays here in Copenhagen.
Is that a picture of you or?

Edit:
Just found out that theres a new picture every time I update your site.


Yep. I'm not sure what picture you saw. There are a few. :) I look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dljfa2PsxWk . :D

Anyway, sorry if I've threadjacked, again, not my intent, and I'll shut up now. :)
Erik from Erie, PA • PDGA #55398

Erie Disc Golf on FacebookOn the Web
iacas
Tree Magnet
User avatar
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:52 am
Location: Erie, PA
Favorite Disc: Volt

Re: Help needed

Postby JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:24 am

See my signature. Your feet were aligned for a rotation and anhyzer vs a hyzer throw that your arm made. The part of the body that tires out first loses in that equation so you'll throw differently later in the round. Your left leg should push straighter before the disc leaves so that you'll get more power.

DG starts out linear and becomes rotational on a horizontal plane for a flat shot as the arm stops moving back to front and goes left to right once the elbow is straightening out.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:49 pm

Hi JR
I have read your sig several time, but I dont think you can imagine how hard I try to allign my feet to be straight with the line.
The only result I get is that I throw it way right. I allready throw it to far right without corrections. The question is why do throw it right when my
feet are aiming aim left And if I ad even more rotation, the disc goes even more right. Am I rotating to far? Is it the little pause in the rotation?
Or mayby like I mentioned, I have to push with the legs wile the shoulders stay passive at the first part of the throw and when the disc is in the
right pec then rotate the shoulders while straightning the arm.
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby seabas22 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:01 pm

iacas wrote:I agree that there are some basic principles. I think disc golf has a LOT more to do with throwing a baseball than hitting a golf ball. The golf swing is a LOT more rotational and disc golf, it seems to me right now, is a LOT more linear - the disc gets put on a line and you deliver your force along that line. The forces we ideally apply to a golf club are along a plane and resulting in a radial motion.


While there are some different styles in disc golf, as well as ball golf, here you can see Feldy pretty much has a classic golf backswing and fairly classic downswing with a slightly more bent elbow. If you watch ball golfers doing the happy gilmore they look very similar to disc golfers. Check out Padraig Harrington and GG in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24071


Kachtz on here and DGCR has an extensive long ball golf competition background, I think he said he was hitting the ball with around 135mph club head speed. Within a few months of playing disc golf he was throwing 700'!
seabas22
Tree Magnet
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:52 pm
Favorite Disc: thunderbird

Re: Help needed

Postby JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:37 pm

fusan wrote:Hi JR
I have read your sig several time, but I dont think you can imagine how hard I try to allign my feet to be straight with the line.
The only result I get is that I throw it way right. I allready throw it to far right without corrections. The question is why do throw it right when my
feet are aiming aim left And if I ad even more rotation, the disc goes even more right. Am I rotating to far? Is it the little pause in the rotation?
Or mayby like I mentioned, I have to push with the legs wile the shoulders stay passive at the first part of the throw and when the disc is in the
right pec then rotate the shoulders while straightning the arm.


First off you're rounding see where you reach back. It is impossible to pull straight at the target from that reach back because you'd cut yourself. An explanation of rounding:


Rounding has the disc moving in the correct direction only once. A straight pull has a longer time window in which the disc is flying at the target.

You should land the steps on the center line of the tee with a flat shot. You should not have the toes pointing at the target but well left of the target. With an approach throw at least 20 degrees left of the target and a full power throw 180 degrees left of the target. If that is what you meant and did. I hope not -if you did that you need to change it immediately because it won't work.

You lacked the pause. The torso heading should turn from reach back to 90 degrees left of the target and pause while you move the right elbow well ahead of the right side. You must avoid getting the shoulder to elbow line pointing straight at the target or you can injure yourself severely. Once the disc is by the right pec the left leg should start to push, the nthe hips twist, shoulders turn and the elbow straightens. You turn from torso and toes pointed 180 degrees left of the target to 90 left with momentum. If you want to. A little push with the left leg is ok as long as you get the elbow forward.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:59 pm

JR wrote:You lacked the pause. The torso heading should turn from reach back to 90 degrees left of the target and pause while you move the right elbow well ahead of the right side. You must avoid getting the shoulder to elbow line pointing straight at the target or you can injure yourself severely. Once the disc is by the right pec the left leg should start to push, the nthe hips twist, shoulders turn and the elbow straightens. You turn from torso and toes pointed 180 degrees left of the target to 90 left with momentum. If you want to. A little push with the left leg is ok as long as you get the elbow forward.


1. What is the shoulder to elbow line? is this when the disc is in the right pec were the elbow points at the target?

2. This is were you really confuse me when you say that I have to start pushing with the left foot once the disc is in the right pec.
I mean doesnt the left leg push allready at the begining of the throw to start the weight transfer/rotation? Or is this a second push after the
pause?
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby JR » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:19 am

1 Exactly.
2 Things are different between stand stills and throws with the x step. Stand stills do need some mildly powered slow left leg push and rotation to get to the right pec position but it should be mostly rotation of the knees and weight shift back to front. See in the reach back you tilt away from the target with the hips and when you throw you tilt back upright and your upper body weight shifting upright helps to minimize the leg power involved in getting to the right pec position. It also leaves the left leg with a lot of power to push off from to start the late acceleration from the right pec position. Explosiveness in the end of the drive not the beginning. That late push from the right pec position begins the throw kinetic chain from the toe to the disc that really counts. It is like driving in a car into a corner slow in fast out.

X step has forward momentum and you'll get to chest pointing 90 degrees left of the target and the disc at the left side with momentum alone and there the momentum reduces and you should have the pause of the body rotation in order to move the arm from the shoulder to the right pec position. From where the second part of the rotation kicks of with a violent push of the left leg.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:21 pm

For some reason I allways thought that the legs started the throw by pushing the left foot -> hips -> torso/shoulders -> arm.

So what you're saying is that the legs are more or less passive under the first part of the throw when using the X step.
The momentum moves the weight foreward and you rotate the torso and shoulders until they are 90 degrees away from the target.
Then the pause in the rotation starts while the elbow/arm keeps moving the disc into the right pec. Once the disc is in the right pec
the left leg pushes hard, the shoulders rotate fast while the elbow straightens out to eject the disc.

Is this correct?
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Re: Help needed

Postby JR » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:18 am

Yes it is absolutely doable with the x step. You can get even steeper weight back angle in the reach back if you have plenty of run up speed.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
JR
Scandinavian Video Mafia
User avatar
 
Posts: 11439
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:07 am
Location: Finland, sea level
Favorite Disc: About to ace

Re: Help needed

Postby fusan » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Mission impossible!
I cant get all those ting incorporated at once. I have to split it otherwise I get nuts.
Starting with the footwork causes me trouble enough as it is without thinking about the pause or late acc.
Btw I allways wondered... How can David Felberg throw 500+? He only bends is arm a little and it doesent seem like he is kicking
off with his rear foot at all. Were does he get the power from? And on top of that hes not the tallest guy.
After closer inspection... He is Rounding the crap out of that disc too.
fusan
Noob
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Video Critique

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest