Figuring out my backhand

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Figuring out my backhand

Postby MikeyDays » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:29 am

I am a rhbh thrower and my current average is 300 ft. Most of my distance drives I throw a slight anhyzer to get my distance and keep a straighter line. Sometimes I throw a big anhyzer higher up to achieve more distance using an S curve. Is this a bad thing to be doing? When I throw more level it seems like the disc will fly straighter with a big fade or just hold a giant hyzer line the whole way which kind of robs me of distance and accuracy. My top drivers are an Ape, Groove, and a Boss. Should I change my throw or just do what works? I know these are higher speed drivers but this is what Ive got. I am also pretty inconsistent with my backhand throws.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby Redisculous » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:12 am

The discs you listed are meant to be thrown much further than you are throwing them. As a result they fade out really hard, forcing you to throw with anhyzer to compensate. I'm guessing you got those discs because of the high speed rating, which happens often when people buy discs because the manufacturers never seem to mention that those speed ratings are more like speed requirements. For any disc to fly as intended, you need to be able to get it up to its intended cruising speed, or you get a much harsher fade.

Constantly compensating with anhyzer can hurt you in the long run, making it more difficult to learn how to throw flat, or to shape some shots. Once you get something ingrained in your muscle memory, its hard to unlearn. The good news is that you realized you were doing it and sought out help. basically if you want to invest the time and improve your game, you're going to have to get some slower discs.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby vtbuzzz » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:20 am

Buy a champion valkyrie and learn how to throw it flat...and leave out those big rimmed discs out of your bag for a few months...then go to a field in a few months and see if anything haa changed and try out those faster discs again.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby JR » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:03 pm

Or rather River, FD or Leopard. I disliked my FD and gave it away but can't tell why others work for many so they may be good. Each of these discs flies fairly straight and needs less power than the ones you throw. The real answer number two is to improve your throwing form so how about a video so we can help there?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby MikeyDays » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:57 am

Redisculous wrote:The discs you listed are meant to be thrown much further than you are throwing them. As a result they fade out really hard, forcing you to throw with anhyzer to compensate. I'm guessing you got those discs because of the high speed rating, which happens often when people buy discs because the manufacturers never seem to mention that those speed ratings are more like speed requirements. For any disc to fly as intended, you need to be able to get it up to its intended cruising speed, or you get a much harsher fade.

Constantly compensating with anhyzer can hurt you in the long run, making it more difficult to learn how to throw flat, or to shape some shots. Once you get something ingrained in your muscle memory, its hard to unlearn. The good news is that you realized you were doing it and sought out help. basically if you want to invest the time and improve your game, you're going to have to get some slower discs.



I throw those drivers further and an overall straighter line than any other lower speed drivers, mainly further by 30 to 50 ft. I also play many courses through the woods and can shape shots just fine. Im still missing the message though. I shouldnt be doing this??
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby MikeyDays » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:01 am

JR wrote:Or rather River, FD or Leopard. I disliked my FD and gave it away but can't tell why others work for many so they may be good. Each of these discs flies fairly straight and needs less power than the ones you throw. The real answer number two is to improve your throwing form so how about a video so we can help there?



Yeah I would like to get a video on here so I can get some real specific critique on my throws. It seems like every time I move down in disc speed I also lose more distance.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:01 am

MikeyDays wrote:
Redisculous wrote:The discs you listed are meant to be thrown much further than you are throwing them. As a result they fade out really hard, forcing you to throw with anhyzer to compensate. I'm guessing you got those discs because of the high speed rating, which happens often when people buy discs because the manufacturers never seem to mention that those speed ratings are more like speed requirements. For any disc to fly as intended, you need to be able to get it up to its intended cruising speed, or you get a much harsher fade.

Constantly compensating with anhyzer can hurt you in the long run, making it more difficult to learn how to throw flat, or to shape some shots. Once you get something ingrained in your muscle memory, its hard to unlearn. The good news is that you realized you were doing it and sought out help. basically if you want to invest the time and improve your game, you're going to have to get some slower discs.



I throw those drivers further and an overall straighter line than any other lower speed drivers, mainly further by 30 to 50 ft. I also play many courses through the woods and can shape shots just fine. Im still missing the message though. I shouldnt be doing this??


There is a good chance that you get those discs flying straight by having off axis torque. Do putters and mids flip or wobble for you?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby MikeyDays » Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:53 am

What is off axis torque? Putter will flip and a few others that are understable. No wobble.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby JR » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:22 pm

The disc should spin around the center alone. Any other plane of spin and the disc wobbles and creates a lot of drag and flips harder. Drivers stabilize faster and the throw makes your head bounce and lose focused vision so it takes a while to see clearly and it happens more often than people would believe that you don't see your throw wobble at first. Even though somebody watching has no trouble seeing the wobble. Common causes of OAT are wrist rolling and not following through with the arm on the same plane as the reach back to rip were. Turning the thumb quickly down right after the rip helps a ton to allow a longer arm follow through eliminating the bounce of the shoulder blade hitting the back muscles. Which jerks the disc. It is weird how movements after the rip will influence the angle of the disc before the rip. Disc golf has these unintuitive things happening. Facts are stranger than fiction.

What putter do you have in which plastic and weight? Not all putters flip on drives. For example sea level 290' flat ground no wind Mercy won't flip a degree when new. Aviar P&A DX 175 does a little and a Classic Aviar doesn't.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby iacas » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:47 pm

JR wrote:It is weird how movements after the rip will influence the angle of the disc before the rip. Disc golf has these unintuitive things happening. Facts are stranger than fiction.


The same is true in golf too. We'll give someone a follow-through piece and it'll change how they arrive at impact. Obviously you know this, but the change in the follow-through propagates to an earlier pre-release (or pre-impact) stage in the motion, and that's what changes the disc or ball flight. In other words, in order to change the follow-through, they have to start doing something differently earlier in the motion, and that's what changes the actual flight and consequently the follow-through.
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Re: Figuring out my backhand

Postby Redisculous » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:31 pm

MikeyDays wrote:
Redisculous wrote:The discs you listed are meant to be thrown much further than you are throwing them. As a result they fade out really hard, forcing you to throw with anhyzer to compensate. I'm guessing you got those discs because of the high speed rating, which happens often when people buy discs because the manufacturers never seem to mention that those speed ratings are more like speed requirements. For any disc to fly as intended, you need to be able to get it up to its intended cruising speed, or you get a much harsher fade.

Constantly compensating with anhyzer can hurt you in the long run, making it more difficult to learn how to throw flat, or to shape some shots. Once you get something ingrained in your muscle memory, its hard to unlearn. The good news is that you realized you were doing it and sought out help. basically if you want to invest the time and improve your game, you're going to have to get some slower discs.



I throw those drivers further and an overall straighter line than any other lower speed drivers, mainly further by 30 to 50 ft. I also play many courses through the woods and can shape shots just fine. Im still missing the message though. I shouldnt be doing this??


I guess I should amend my original post to say "compensating with anhyzer or OAT", which is clearly what you are doing if you are getting a boss or an ape to fly on a line that resembles anything close to straight at 300 feet.

MikeyDays wrote:What is off axis torque? Putter will flip and a few others that are understable. No wobble.


Wobble can be caused by OAT, but just because your disc doesn't wobble, doesn't mean there isn't OAT in your throw. OAT can be used to shape shots, which is basically what you're doing, whether you realize it or not. You're rolling your wrist, or angling your shoulders or follow through on an angle opposite of the direction the disc wants to fade in order to keep the flight straighter. If you are aware of the fact you are doing it, it's not necessarily a bad thing. The problem comes when you have to do it on almost every single throw because you are using discs that are ridiculously overstable and fast like an Ape, and it becomes ingrained in your muscle memory and you are unable to drive with slower, or understable discs without flipping them.

If you're fine with where your game is at, then no worries right? But here's one way of looking at it. The average male player that takes the time to learn the correct way to throw a disc can hit 350+ feet (and more than likely further). That means they can throw a mid about 300'. If you're already throwing some of the fastest discs on the market to hit that same distance, how do you intend to gain more distance?
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