Redisculous wrote:Take a look at your video at about 4:50, the disc stays by your left shoulder as your torso comes around.
Redisculous wrote:This apex is reached, not by spinning from back to front, but "rotating" 90 degrees, letting the disc and arm get more forward, then rotating 90(+) degrees. Bending your knees more will also help you with this. As you know, after you plant, you have to push the hips around with your rear leg. If that leg is straight, your hips come around immediately, if it is bent you get that extra fraction of a second while it straightens before you can move your hips so much.
Redisculous wrote:ALSO, by starting to face up too soon, you get absolutely nothing from swinging your lower arm. Try flipping a pocket knife open without stopping your hand. You can't, just like you can't open the angle between the upper and lower arm while the upper arm is still moving in that direction. Without getting your arm longer before your torso makes it change direction, you wont really be able to use your wrist either.
Redisculous wrote:Basically, need to get your elbow more forward, and be chopping with the arm before your body pulls your arm to the right. You seem to have a really good understanding of mechanics already, and a good base to build off of. Nice video.
seabas22 wrote:Nice vid/analysis.
seabas22 wrote:1. Grip/wrist alignment is off. Your wrist is open in the downswing and too tight griping the disc. Need to get the disc more parallel to the forearm and more pinch between the thumb pad and index finger for stronger disc pivot gripping hard later in the throw...much later. You want to keep everything more taut rather than hard or loose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMjxqe7GVIQ
seabas22 wrote:2. Your set-up and stance is fairly open and wide. Try closing your stance moving your front foot more toward the left side of the tee and a little less wide stance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LffYBb1vQjQ
seabas22 wrote:3. You are shifting your center of gravity too much and over-heaving the backswing. In your backswing your weight goes toward the outside of your rear foot and everything goes to comprise from there.
seabas22 wrote:Your upper arm crashes against the chest and never get the elbow forward of the shoulder to release the lower arm levers. Keep your weight centered dynamically, more on the insides of your feet/legs back and forward and more width of the upper arm from the chest. From your last throw, you can see how far the disc travels way past your target line toward the right side of the tee in your backswing and the upper arm/chest are collapsed. You want to keep the disc more on the target line from the backswing or forward press, through the transition and bring the disc more into your body/power zone more from the left side of the target line on the downswing and get the elbow more forward of the shoulder.
seabas22 wrote:4. Your shoulders are not rotating on plane. Try dropping the throwing shoulder on the backswing, helps keep the shoulder/arm looser or more taut especially for a hyzer swing plane. You end up with more of an over the top swing and don't stay inside the swing plane creating all kinds of off axis torque and wobble. Part of this is due to changes in your spine angle. Watch your finish position and how the hips throw you forward after impact and off balance/posture. You'll notice the top throwers maintain their balance on the front foot into the finish and rarely will they get thrown forward due to better posture/bracing the spine against the front side through impact. Well basically better posture throughout the whole throw.
seabas22 wrote:I think you got it all pretty much spot on. In regard to the open wrist I'm referring to #2 I think, the wrist is extended forward early, where it should be the last lever to release.
iacas wrote:- Hips spin to square to the camera
- Right arm pulls disc across chest
- Hips and torso begin spinning again, disc is ejected from hand, hand sweeps right after release. The release is the "hit" or "apex".
Is that all right?
iacas wrote:... pull the arm across the chest faster.
JR wrote:Nerd alert you guys degenerated this into too much too soon. The OP shares our observations about trying to swallow the problem whole and rectifying everything in one go. Ain't gonna happen. The number one thing to cure is to remove health risks from planting the final step flat. The plant step should land on the side of the toe rolling to the heel ball of the foot airborne immediately when you're on the heel. To achieve that the sole to side of the shoe corner is along which the foot should be rolling from the toe to the heel. Planting flat on the ground risks twisting the ankle, knee, hip and back even if you don't hit anything with the foot being too low in the ball of the foot to stop the pivot early.
JR wrote:And there is a lot to do to improve. Good luck ironing out stuff. Unlike many you are well ahead of the game in self analysis and getting the elbow forward. Good job. Feldy counters the force from the elbow chop with the left leg kicking forward and right.
JR wrote:Eventually you should get personal coaching but in order to get more out of it you should work with us because this is free and the better you are when you get there the more advanced and tricky stuff they are able to give you to work with and you'll get a better return for your efforts.
Redisculous wrote:JR is right, I have this bad habit of going off on tangents. Everything I was pointing out can be summed up easily, if you check out the diagram on this page (you will have to scroll down a bit):
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... &start=165
You never reach figure 4 because your rotation speed is too constant EDIT:(or you face up too soon). All of my points were ideas to help you get into that position. You skip to something that resembles figure 5, except your arm is still bent.
Redisculous wrote:Between pulling the disc across, and "the rest", your arm needs to begin to straighten. We call it the elbow chop around here. This is part of the reason you are taking the disc off the line, and not getting a defined apex. You can't do the elbow chop in the proper direction (down the line)if your torso is pulling your shoulder/upper arm around already. The ejection of the disc happens when the hand moves from one side of the disc to the other, when everything gets pulled to the side, at the apex.
Redisculous wrote:It's not really a matter of pulling any faster, it's delaying the rotation of the torso/shoulders to get the hand/disc further forward into the apex. Pulling faster at this point will probably just cause the disc to slip out instead of getting any real leverage.
Redisculous wrote:Blake T made a really great diagram that illustrates the apex in this thread http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/vi ... 3&start=30
In the throw I pointed out where I said the disc never got past the left shoulder, you are basically the "shoulder spinner" in the diagram.
JR wrote:After staying healthy the grip needs to be set right because that is accomplished mostly before you start the throw. So it is like a chapter in pre flight check list of pilots and making things fly disc golfers benefit from a self and disc check before you start to move after situation analysis, line selection, disc selection and power setting selection.
JR wrote:Slam, apex of the endless golf hitting machine belt equivalent in disc golf is the right pec position.
JR wrote:There the elbow reaches the tightest angle and straightening the elbow from there adds to the best possible relative movement of the forearm vs the body. Note that this is a leap frogging action that is repeated in the wrist and possibly with manipulation repeated in the disc pivoting between the index finger and the thumb. In some forms. More on the advanced stuff after you can feel it and have polished the basics to the point that you can see and feel the difference between the regular passive and active disc pivot.
JR wrote:You need to polish everything in form for perfection so everything needs attention sooner or later. Normal advice here is working from the hit backwards but i disagree partially with it because you gotta be proficient enough to feel and see the results of that work at least up to a point to be able to see what is different with the late in the throw stuff. Something that can be easily masked by fundamental flaws in form. That can lead to erroneous conclusions and capped progress.
JR wrote:After the grip the stride length should be the next one to be inspected. Note that proper stride length varies with speed. One needs a long enough plant step to not lock up the heel pivot from lack of movement range in the hip joint hip vs upper thigh. The step needs to be short enough to allow the knee to be bent at landing. Probably not for overheads but for every other throw. The other things in your list are all good and i don't have an opinion as to the order in which to practice them. Note that the grip and the stride length and the resulting weight shift and timing differences will transform other aspects of your form easily so i recommend keeping on videoing yourself. The other issues can be resolved automatically at least partially with the first two corrections.
JR wrote:I love the slo mo vids and your analysis software. It is such a powerful form changing tool that it is insane Have you looked at Dartfish?
JR wrote:Terminology clarification: You don't land on the heel but you pivot on it and you had enough height in the ball of the foot when you tried it.
JR wrote:You recognized and illustrated rounding well. When the disc moves far away from the body (what the rounding does) it gets way easier to have grip locks. These vids had the shoulders turning toward the target too early not allowing the elbow to move forward enough before chopping straight. Check the nose angles of the discs at the rip. There is too much variation with some wrist straight nose way up throws in there.
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