Flight Chart Update part 1

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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby iacas » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:00 am

Where's the DGR flight chart? I found several threads on it with a Google search, but didn't find the flight chart itself.

Apologies in advance if this is a brain fart and its location is obvious. It's early. :)

(Or are y'all just talking about Joe's Flight Chart)? I'm confused. :D
Last edited by iacas on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby bcr123psu » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:03 am

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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby keltik » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:42 am

Blake_T (the owner of this site) created and maintains Joe's Flight Chart. He usually brings his updates here for discussion.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby iacas » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:00 am

keltik wrote:Blake_T (the owner of this site) created and maintains Joe's Flight Chart. He usually brings his updates here for discussion.


Thanks. Thought so, didn't want to assume though.

How long after he adds things until the PDF is updated? I'm still waiting for the Saint to be listed (though I'm sure I could find the listing here.) :D
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:28 am

The Saint and FD are almost identical? =/
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby Blake_T » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:16 am

The ones we had were, except the saints had a lot more variance across runs and across plastics.

The height needed to fly the lines were a bit diff and the saint was about 5% longer. Dan was absolutely killing the saints though... Im talking 580'+ on line drive golf lines. Inchalked that up to weirdness, sort of like when he was throwing tridents farther than bosses.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby keltik » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:24 am

Blake_T wrote:The height needed to fly the lines were a bit diff and the saint was about 5% longer. Dan was absolutely killing the saints though... Im talking 580'+ on line drive golf lines. Inchalked that up to weirdness, sort of like when he was throwing tridents farther than bosses.


I think Dan needs to get sponsored by Lat64°, or at least fill his bag with their discs. just sayin
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:50 am

jubuttib wrote:The Saint and FD are almost identical? =/


They aren't that different actually. At least the S FD that i didn't like for more HSS and longer Leo type i expected from the hype machine. I knew that the Saint was harder fading than that so i wasn't as displeased with it but it ain't exactly a more HSS longer River because it fades a role more OS.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby sunspot » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:06 am

Blake_T wrote:The ones we had were, except the saints had a lot more variance across runs and across plastics.

The height needed to fly the lines were a bit diff and the saint was about 5% longer. Dan was absolutely killing the saints though... Im talking 580'+ on line drive golf lines. Inchalked that up to weirdness, sort of like when he was throwing tridents farther than bosses.


I haven't thrown either the Saint or FD, so would you consider them flippy? More of neutral drivers? Are there other discs that they are like?
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby Blake_T » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:40 pm

Sunspot: hss they are both in the realm of a -1. The saint had more hss variance across the 4 than the fd, erring on the more stable side.

There are certain tendencies that can't be measured in 4 numbers. The fd is definitely a domey flying disc. The saint flies more like a flat disc (which is why i wouldn't compare it to a river either since they are domey).

The saint's nuances are closer to discs like a flash, starfire-x, z xpress etc. it cuts through the air and manages to stay up.

The fd has a lot more loft to it in the same vein as a tl, xl, jls, river, etc.

Keep in mind those are tendencies. The raw flight numbers that we measure were very similar. Dan was basically throwing the TL+ 460-480', fd 500-550', and saint 540-580'. I think the plus mold rim held the TL back due to micro slippage but both the fd and saint were longer, with the saint beiing consistently longer than the fd.

Btw, anyone is free to disagree with any of these ratings but if you want me to believe you have testicles, you have to state what you would rate them at too :p

There's tons of run variance out there and i specifically choose a variance in shapes and weight for testing. Sometimes this forces us to average things and/or guess what it was supposed to be like, but overall it often gives a fairly accurate rating for say... The average of 10 production runs.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby jubuttib » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:36 pm

Mainly I was expecting the Saint to be more stable/overstable in comparison. -1 is appropriate for the DGR S-Lines I have (though the D-Lines are more like -3 or -4 even) especially in the distance range they're meant for (something like 330-380'). I wouldn't put mine down as +2.5 LSS though, when that's what you put the PD down as. Mine fade at the end but not harshly at all, personally I'd put them at +1.5 or +2, tops (I haven't gotten a D-Line one to fade yet, without basically stalling it out). And from what I've heard the DGR ones were on average more HSS and presumably more LSS than the regular release ones.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby JR » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:58 pm

The S FD i didn't like was easily 2.5 LSS more like 3 and some PDs are more than 2.5 LSS so it is a difficult comparison.

Blake i agree that the Opto Rivers i've seen are domey but the GLs i have are much flatter and not much domier than my GL Saint at all. Without measuring and looking at them side by side maybe a fifteenth of an inch in difference.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby 3j0hn » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:52 am

Blake_T wrote:Mamba: 5.5 / -3 / +2.5 / 4.

This totally agrees with my experience with my Mamba's. Basically, a bit flippier than my bliz Katanas but same distance and similar finish. I find the huge difference in their Innova numbers to be a bit baffling.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby Blake_T » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:48 pm

3j0hn: the mamba (and monarch) ratings from innova assume they hold the turn for 90% of its flight.
The katana is rated by them assuming it flexes out (~70-75% flex point).

The joe's chart ratings are rated independently. Hss = how much it turns. Lss = how much it fades if it doesn't turn over.

Jub: 3 of the 4 saints had more fade than other discs we rated at +2, especially when speed compensated heights (or height compensated speeds) were taken into consideration. The fourth saint was in the lss +2-2.25 range. The PD has a faster flight speed than the saint, so you would need to compare a lower flight line on the PD vs. the saint's flight line. E.g. A pd's fade at 10' of height will roughly correspond to a saint's fade at ~14' of height. I feel comfortable with the 2.5 lss for now, but if a few more runs come out that are less lss, we can look into re-rating them in the future.
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Re: Flight Chart Update part 1

Postby Ryan C » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:45 pm

I find it very hard to believe that Dan is throwing Saints 580' on line drives. If he is capable of that, he could just show up and win every distance comp ever. I also think it goes to show that good form can make you throw far, but apparently doesn't make it so you can win many actual events.
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