critique please...

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Re: critique please...

Postby keltik » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:50 pm

lean into the throw. your chin should be over your toes as the disc comes out of your hand.

read through maxing out at 300 thread. read all of it.
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Re: critique please...

Postby seabas22 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:45 pm

1. Slow down...way down, like to a walk or standstill or one step.
2. Keep your spine upright on reachback...you will never get your weight forward trying shift your weight so far back. Always keep your spine moving toward the target through the x-step.
3. Try using a Feldy pre-swing forward and backswing and work your body around the disc, helps balance and rhythm which are key to a good throw.
Check....
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24071
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009
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Re: critique please...

Postby JR » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:59 pm

Dusty5150 wrote:hey JR - a quick question on Emac - he pivots well after his release and his hips and shoulders have passed; is this just a result of super flexibility or is this something to try and accomplish - ie. late pivot.

Sorry about the hijack there, so i will comment on your video - you're still not following through enough, better, but not enough. My wife does what you do but she is subconsciously stopping herself from freely following through because of a previous injury. Let that right arm fling around backwards. I tell my wife to try and reach forward on her line with her left arm, and that helps her with the shoulder rotation.

ps. good job with the footwear, now get a haircut :wink:


Eric in this shot at least shows how lean and flexible he is. He doesn't get as much power from the body rotation as Will does. Will is another lean super flexible guy. Eric is not getting as much acceleration than is possible without the heel pivot and as much turning of the body speed as that gives Will. That late pivot of Will's plays right into Newton's force=mass times acceleration. Acceleration of that equation comes from pivoting as late as possible and getting the rest of the motions up to maximum ratio of exit speed of the disc and rate of acceleration of the disc. If you spin out early you upped the acceleration and speed early in the throw losing in the acceleration(=force) where it counts. Which is in the rip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rauvjnp ... ure=fvwrel

Nice DGR can't link the vid of will directly to here. It is between the video of Eric and this line. You should check it for comparison.

Pask check out the angles of the left knee all throughout the throw and where you start to slide on the ground. The soles of the shoes aren't grippy enough on that surface at that speed. And you have difficulty pushing with the left leg to turn your body to the right. So better shoes or lower speed. You rip full on with the arm right from the start. Strong arming defined. Local bombers say that they do start full power throws by yanking at 100 % with the arm when the plant step lands. I couldn't get as far that way compared to a late acceleration throw two years ago. Last year i got almost as far after muscle power training. I haven't compared this year. Basically you are trying way too hard but it is great to know that you are able to exert a lot of power and guide your body movements at very high speeds. Now that potential needs to be harnessed to make the disc not the body move fast. That requires holding on to the full hit part in the diagram Blake drew and that is difficult and needs a lot of hand strength so going that fast that early increases the chances of your grip strength losing out that tug of war too early.

The plant step is at least 8" too long for that speed.

The running direction, step landing placements and the arm pull were almost text book mild hyzer (plant step a little too far to the left) but the arm followed through low so it would OAT flip the disc anny. If i saw correctly your right thumb points up in the follow through and it should point down. You need to step away from the wall to not hit it in the follow through. After that rotating the arm counter clockwise really fast right after the disc leaves pushes the shoulder blade farther away from the spine allowing the shoulder blade to move behind the back muscles farther lengthening the follow through of the arm. Which is too short, sapping power and most importantly stopping the arm movement abruptly shaking the
body possibly influencing the release of the disc. Flipping the disc.

There is more power available once you get the current power level smooth by reaching back even farther by pointing the heels and back at the target in the x step.

The heel pivots fine on that slippery surface but especially for off the tee shots you need to raise the ball of the foot more.

You have a small hip twist to the right of neutral adding power to the throw. Making a larger twist adds more power. The shoulders are locked in a weird place. To me it seems that you may be throwing with the shoulders locked left of neutral so that would indicate ripping with the shoulders in partially reach back position. Not the farthest point of reach back though. The shoulders should turn even more to the right of the hips.

The arm reached back lower than at the hit so the disc would have popped higher than optimal. That would have been rectified if you hadn't slipped and could have moved weight up of forward instead of leaning back. Seabas is actually wrong this time because at that running speed you can get weight forward from even a longer weight back stance at the reach back. It requires a very stiff left leg in the x step planting and afterward to lever you out of the long weight back position. In fact if you tensed up the left leg to immobile you'd fall over on your back or right side. At slower speeds even an immobile leg wouldn't allow you to shift the weight forward. A proper weight shift can't happen fully if the shoes slide on the ground. So slowing down is required on that surface. Those shoes may work well enough at that speed on a clean tee pad of concrete. Wet grass and you might fall on your butt with both feet high in the air.

You start the elbow chop a little too early. There are many inches more available elbow movement forward before you start to straighten the elbow. Just make sure you never ever push the elbow as close to the target as possible before straightening it out or you may be injured badly for life.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:47 am

Ok so what should I work on first? And at this point I have JR saying more reachback and Sea is saying less...

But for me I say I should start with the 8" less on the plant step. That will get my foot under me more and should help with other things as well. Also in the x step my left heel and hip more away from the target. And then work on my follow through... These seem manageable without being overwhelmed...

Is this where I should start? Or somewhere else? Obviously all this needs fixed but if I correct to much it can be overwhelming.
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Re: critique please...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:27 am

A shorter reach back is great for now for ironing out other form issues. I meant that once those are sorted there is more power to be had from a longer reach back but i agree in that you should wait for now and not reach back any farther.

The number one thing now is to learn to throw loosely and relaxed so you should try out what later arm acceleration changes. Chances are that at first you'll throw shorter but eventually you'll throw as far with less effort and more control and after that farther.

That 8" is a starting point and it could be even less. Going too short with the plant step comes when the hip joint locks up or you'll get stuck foot that hinders pivot and trips you forward. The speed and plant step length is a continuum where one changes with the other so you need to test out different combinations. I'd work on one of those issues you mentioned at a time and improve each of them. I have no other preference than to throw smoothly and shortening the plant step at first. At this time the turning of both heels toward the target should come last. That goes with reaching back farther. Before you try those you should be well timed and nearly perfectly balanced with the current reach back length.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: critique please...

Postby keltik » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:18 am

work on weight forward. that is your biggest and most obvious flaw right now.
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:34 pm

keltik wrote:work on weight forward. that is your biggest and most obvious flaw right now.

I guess what's the easiest way to correct this? I read and read but there has to be a drill or something...
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Re: critique please...

Postby keltik » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:20 pm

here's a vid I did a few years ago.
http://youtu.be/P_bQatJksuw

It's not perfect but it kinda illustrates the point. If you add a skateboard kick at the end it will push you forward.
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Re: critique please...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:12 pm

That video seems familiar here's Dan:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDcrO7wPXxU&feature=related[/youtube]

Watch both knees for the angle in the reach back vs the rip.

Slower speed with less leaning back makes balance and control easier so it is best to start there. Shortening the plant step help a ton. Try to drop your stance by bending the knees before you start to move and keep the knees a little bent with each step. And note how the different knees need to be bent at different angles with the left bending more in the reach bacl and the right in the rip. That should do it as long as you can kick forward with the left leg instead of slipping or sliding.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:59 pm

well guys I am far from being there, but I slowed down, used the loose as a noodle until the very end, and shortened my step and there were 3 throws today where everything clicked... You could feel the difference, almost effortless distance! I threw a leo 400', Nuke SS 450, and a Nuke 480'... Obviously this is the farthest I have ever thrown anything, but I'm getting there... So thanks so much! And ill keep working and posting up videos!

I did notice thought ripping at the last moment with everything slower I was getting a lot of slips... So that is weird as well... Gotta hold on tight i guess...lol
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:37 pm

Here's the latest and greatest. Hahahaha

Let me know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wtd8--l ... ata_player
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Re: critique please...

Postby JR » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:58 am

You've got a ton of D already considering you aren't twisting much at all with your hips or turning the shoulders to the right. Once those work adding more reach back will add your D. You have a fast arm have you done other sports or worked out?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:34 am

Oh yeah I grew up playing sports. Was pretty good at hockey and football and obviously because of those worked out a ton ( although I'm skin and bones now... Lol). Hockey im sure helped slap shots and wrist shots are all about hips and wrists and weight continuing forward into a follow through. Very similar concepts So i guess that's where all this comes from...

So really twist my hips more and shoulders rip through and that should bring more D? In the video I'm not strong arming anymore? I feel like I'm a lot slower at the beginning of the throw now
Last edited by pask2155 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: critique please...

Postby JR » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28 am

Slap shots explain a lot. Because you have a fast arm and seem to be able to accelerate all the way from that short reach back i'd say you're doing fine. Acceleration to beyond the disc has left is the goal. I think you are ok with the distance you're getting. At the moment you aren't using the hips and the shoulders much at all before the disc leaves. You should have them move right of neutral in unison (or close to it) with the elbow chop to keep the disc moving in a straight line while also adding power from the rotation to the right.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: critique please...

Postby pask2155 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:27 pm

Here's another video... This was a throw that went about 380' with a destroyer.

And guys I am still only getting 400'+ one of every 10-12 throws. I want to get consistent 400' shots but I'm also getting very frustrated. At this point I'm hitting my lines. Getting pretty good line drives but I can't get into the 400+ on a consistantly basis. I am waiting til the right pic to pull. I'm trying to snap as much as I can but I feel like I've been at this plateau for forever. So check this out and let me know what I have to do to hit 400' on every shot... Thanks...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo0nTw8LPNk
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