Strongarm to Snap

by **berrebo** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:29 pm

I have about 3-4 years of playing under my belt and I learned to strongarm (with pretty good form) will consistent/controlled drives about 330ft on average. I took a few years off and came back to the game (throwing 300 or so with brute force). I spent a week reading all of the great info put out on these forums in the last few years and decided to retool my drive. I spent a week throwing from a standstill (pec drill) and got my standstill drives up to 290' to 300ft'. I added a rough runup and measured my drives and I started throwing 330' to 340'.

I suspect I didn't have snap for 2 reasons. 1) I injured my index and middle fingers during what I might call "grip lock" during my pec drills. 2) My rip point was wonky. I couldn't get even pressure between my thumb (or thumbpad) and index finger. I never felt the pivot and the disc seemed to slip out.

I went back out and bent my thumb (close to 90 degrees) so I would be pinching the disc between it and my index finger to see what happened. It wasn't super comfortable, but I may be able to get accustomed to it. But I could begin to feel the disc pivot (not cleanly or smoothly, but I felt it) when I threw and I started throwing 350' - 375'. I did notice significant "wobble" (not sure if it was OTA or not) so I know I need to work on a smoother release. But I have two questions -

1) Is it anyone's opinion that I keep my thumb bent to improve the "rip point"? or should I keep with my old style of thumb pad over index finger rip point (it feels offcenter though)

2) What is the best way to heal strained tendons/ligaments in my index and middle fingers? and if I learn to throw correctly, will it still hurt (it seems to hurt every 3rd or 4th throw)?

Thanks for all the great discussions about throwing/snapping, etc. I think I'm going to get it eventually.

by JR » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:33 am

Welcome. You'd have to be a medical professional and having examined you to say for sure what's up with your fingers and what you can and cannot do now and at which timetable you can ramp up the stress. I've had tendon pain in the index finger of the throwing hand for three years now so i don't know what to tell you. Learn to throw with the other arm? Not much interest in that for me.

You definitely do gain pressure under the thumb alleviating slipping issues but it is harder on the fingers. Drives should have most of the gripping pressure at first in the rear under the base of the thumb for most of the early part of the throw. Once the disc pivots the index finger and the thumb should pinch hard. So they will work hard but for a shorter time.

One great tip for reducing slips is to move the thumb in quarter inch increments toward the center of the disc. Another is to use tackier plastic.

If the above tips aren't enough and throwing fewer shots per day and discing up to longer discs that require less power to go as far ain't enough i'd take more rest days. Cold works well. Depending on what is wrong it might help or you might need half a year off of stress. Usually mild movement to exchange the fluids and oxygenating the tissues is good for tendon damage. Doing absolutely nothing is the worst thing to do. If you can get the heart rate mildly elevated from exercising other parts of the body you minimize the risk of overusing the injured tendons.

What you really need is a diagnosis.

by **berrebo** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:05 am

Thanks JR, I don't ever remember reading that the disc "slips" during the grip from the thumb pad to the thumb during the disc pivot, and the hard pinch occurs after that. I think that clears things up for me quite a bit. Thanks for the info!

by JR » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:52 am

The disc leaving the base of the thumb in the pivot ain't technically the same thing as a slip. That pivot is one of the most important goals in form and slipping never is.

by **Cavere** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:29 am

I feel similar in my RHBH drives. I feel like I'm strong arming the disc. I can drive with certain discs out to 400' but other discs (mostly in champion plastic) really don't fly in the path they should. I have a F2 leopard that will not turn for the life of me.

by **berrebo** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:57 pm

JR, I understand what you are saying, thanks for the feedback. The grip is more comfortable when using more of my thumb and thumbpad. What I like about using the tip of my thumb is that I can feel the disc pivoting. I couldn't feel it the other way. I wonder if that is because after the disc pivoted, my rip finger and thumb weren't aligned. When I pinch the disc between the tip of my thumb and my rip finger, it ensures that alignment.

Or maybe I just wasn't pinching hard enough during the pivot (or disc slippage) for them to align... I'll pay closer attention to this in the future. I just haven't heard this part discussed much, and making sure thumb and rip were aligned sure made it easier to feel the disc pivot. Once I felt that, I "knew" that it was just a matter of time before I got the timing down so I could "trebuchet" the disc.

Maybe it's not a matter of perfect alignment, but getting the pivot "feeling" during a throw allows me to work on the timing. Not sure.

by JR » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:04 pm

The brain is a funny thing because once it has learned something new it is much easier to detect it later than it was before. I can feel misaligned pivot both ways but the added pressure of the top down thumb makes it easier to feel. I can't speak for others about regular grip thumb pinch strength and how it feels but for me it is difficult to get much power there at all because i'm injured. I get a lot more power from the top down grip. Dave Dunipace mentioned in an Innova video that the thumb alone answers for the grip strength above the disc vs 4 fingers below so the thumb strength determines the grip strength which sets the upper theoretical power limit to a throw. Always go for more grip strength in the pinch until you get to grip locking and then it is just a matter of easing up slightly.