Crosseyed's Bag 2.0

[Crosseyed0811]

After a long break (thank's to my surgeon >.<) I was able to get out and play several times this past week. With VERY interesting results. I made several changes to my throw that resulted in the first rounds probably ever in which my backhand was more consistent and reliable than my forehand. I'll list out the changes just in case someone else stumbles here and can benefit from them:

1. Straightened out my run up. Played a round with a friend of mine who pointed out my run up was \ when I was trying to throw |
2. Slowed down my run up. For reference to what I mean, I got the idea from watching this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0mJCtWk-C4&t=10m20s

Those two together significantly increased my ability to hit the line I wanted.

3. (not fully done yet) Working on lowering my pull line from high shoulder level to try to help with nose angle issues that have always affected me.

The result is my Coyote turned in to a tunnel shot-line hitting-monster. And now I want to build around that. I throw on low lines, and prefer "cheap" plastic in most drivers (dx/pro levels) when possible. Right now I know I have:

Putters: Aviar Classics
Mids: Coyote (only 1 right now, star), Spiders (beat up dx, newer champ)
Fairways: Pro Leo, Champ Banshee (throw both of these more like longer mids, banshee mostly for FH and thumbers)

I've also got some that want to get spots in my Roadrunner (good glide, always finishes right), Firebird (forehands mostly) and a max weight Pro Wraith (may be "too much disc" for me, but I love how it feels in my hand and have never regretted a throw with it on the course)

I have a star valk that I purchased before the break that I'm unsure of. Still new, needs to break in some before I can tell what I think.

I really want something I can be as confident in as my Coyote in a driver range. Preferably something available in the cheaper plastics as I tend to like how they fly better, and don't worry about losing them as much for monetary reasons. Perfect world would be Innova Pro Line as I love the feel of their drivers in pro plastic (see pro wraith and pro leo). The two that LOOK like they would be the better fits are the Valk SL and Beast but I worry any of those would get too flippy too quickly. Any suggestions would be great. I've got a P and S PD that I probably need to try again now. My DX Teebird that has always been a fav disappointed me by flying more understable than I ever remember, may should try my champ but haven't yet. Have a DX Eagle X that may get some throws to test as well.

PS I know this has mostly been "information vomit" but I just needed to get everything out there for myself to sort through as well.

[JR]

You should test the Eagle thoroughly to see if there is any need for the PD. The PD is great in the wind. Pro Beast ain't flippy and doesn't seem to break in fast. It is a great disc for power requirement to reached distance ratio and for me it is longer than the Valk.

[Crosseyed0811]

Thanks for the tip. Truth be told I shy away from PD's as I see all the differences between runs talked about here. Eagles tend to be eagles from what I could tell (provided proper x and l variations which frustrates me as well) so I'll probably try mine out some more. The Beast sounds like it may be along the lines of what I want. I may try to get my hands on a new one and give it a shot. Another innova pro driver I may look at is the Orc as I completely forgot they made them in Pro plastic, and It could probably use some breaking in before I could throw them straight so the pro may be good there as well.

[JR]

I haven't thrown more than once with a Pro Orc and it was every bit as flippy as everyone tells here. It breaks in super fast. There are some super overstable Eagles but on the whole they are fairly good but i've heard people saying that in DX EX the break in is very quick. Beasts are durable in everything else but DX.

[Crosseyed0811]

How about the Pro SL? I know Val pretty much used to throw nothing but Pro SL's for drivers. A mix of Star and Pro Starfires be a nice core group of drivers?

Edit: Didn't see that previous comment come in, good stuff JR, thanks!

[JR]

Pro SL might be OOP and it too will break in fast to pretty darn flippy. Flat Star Starfires are very beefy and normally domed ones in Champ are great fading drivers. Fading in the sense that you can count on it in most throws and it fades a role beefier than Beasts.

[Crosseyed0811]

Sounds good, I'll try to get my hands on a Pro Beast sometime and see how it does and how it breaks in for me. Thanks for the tips JR

Another way to look at my problem... I've currently got Aviar/Spider/Coyote set up... Throw in a Firebird and a Roadrunner(until maybe something else gets added and broken in to replace) and a Wraith... Looks like the gap I'm trying to fill is between the Coyote and Wraith. Which of these discs mentioned (or any others that come to mind still) fit the gap in distance there best?

[Fightingthetide]

Eagle-X would fit that gap just fine. If you do need something longer than an EX but shorter than a Wraith, you could power down on an understable Roadrunner (since you already have it). That should glide out far enough to fill the gap...but I still think EX to Wraith isn't out of the question, especially seasoned mid 160's DX EX's.

Oh and I think I read on here that someone said DX EX's break in quick. That was not my experience. Mine kept stability for a long time. Some of the newer DX plastic might break in quick, but not what I had. Mine was slightly waxy and fairly stiff.

[Crosseyed0811]

So Yeah, Right now I'm looking at the Aviars, Spiders, Coyote. I have a Banshee and Leo for special shots in the mid range and slightly longer than mid range shots.

Thinking my drivers from there are looking something like Teebird, Roadrunner, Firebird, and Wraith.

I plan to hit a field and course with these soon and see how they feel for me together and if I feel like there's something I'm missing and such.


Edit: and that's not me throwing everything you guys have said out the window Just looking at what I have and such and thinking these may be a good base to work off of.

[Crosseyed0811]

So after not getting to play much recently I got out for a round yesterday with some all new stuff for try outs. Broke out my BB Aviars which may be back to stay. KC's are just so stiff, I like it... Broke out a stack of rocs in place of the Coyote and Spider and don't think that's gonna stick. After being able to hit gaps like a champ with my Coyote I was getting grip lock or something on my rocs, they all came out going way right.

On drivers, the Wraith, Firebird, Teebird, and Roadrunner are all nice, but I think I'm going to try to go more max weight on everything. 2 Wraiths were in the bag, a 167-169 champ wraith and a 174 pro wraith. I was much more consistently able to get flat and low releases like I wanted where as the champ was all over the place and usually nose up. Seemed like the max weight was much easier to throw where I wanted it and it was not any shorter than the lighter weight champ.

[JR]

Yeah the Coyote is pretty rad isn't it?

[Crosseyed0811]

Yeah the Coyote is pretty rad isn't it?

It is! I have a 176 Star Coyote someone gave me because I bought him a biscuit and wouldn't let him pay for it. Its been in and out of my bag for years and occasionally takes hold of a spot and won't go anywhere. But I have always heard people's opinions of the Coyote that it won't work as a stand alone mid and so I always pull back from it. Right now I have it with a couple of spiders and my struggle is, I don't know when my spider would be better on a shot than the Coyote. I think its gotten a bad rap from the days of DX Coyotes (which aren't even made anymore) that they don't break in will and such so you don't want to use them, but with this Star I can't tell that its ever really broken in any.

So yeah JR, I know you're the Coyote man and I've asked some things in the coyote thread, but what are the weaknesses in the Coyote? What mid range shots will I come across that I should say "Coyote needs to stay in the bag here.."? What are some good options to cover those shots when they come up? I have the Spiders mostly because they're probably the best midrange I've ever Forehanded. However I know there may be some others that work here as well (Cro?) I just haven't had the need to test them out.

[JR]

The Cro is a faster less flipping harder fading big brother of the Spider. Not as versatile and easy to place than the Spider or the Coyote. The cons to Coyotes are wind performance especially into headwinds, rear winds are fine, being so long that ranging might need some learning and proper bag building without overlap from driving putters and fairway drivers. One can see the mild fade as a con too so paired to harder fading more overstable putter that can handle headwinds it would be better. Overstable Buzzzes, Pains, Hornets and Sentinels come to mind. Or the Cro. The bottom may not be easy to release cleanly with medium to small hands. A Spider/Coyote pairing is not as good because even the Spider can be overpowered by stiff or at least swirly headwinds. Around here that doesn't happen too often and in those extreme conditions it is always good to carry a utility wind beater like the Gator or a Zone.

[Crosseyed0811]

Yeah I was thinking I needed to try out a good Cro and you may have just sealed that. I love FH Spiders compared to trying Rocs or anything else but even the spider sometimes gets flippy if I give it too much. I like some touch on my discs, but a Cro might be better for the FH shots and cover some wind duties and placement hyzers better.

[JR]

Yeah I was thinking I needed to try out a good Cro and you may have just sealed that. I love FH Spiders compared to trying Rocs or anything else but even the spider sometimes gets flippy if I give it too much. I like some touch on my discs, but a Cro might be better for the FH shots and cover some wind duties and placement hyzers better.

And it will handle other form flaws better than the Spiders except unclean releases and grip issues so i hope you have big hands and have never had finger sticking and scraping issues. Otherwise it will do what you wrote. Buzzzes FH better than Spiders IMO but getting the most overstable kind could help. Some Tis and Glo Z majority from what i understand. Flat top, high PLH and deeply concave wing are the marks of an overstable Buzzz. All simultaneously. Of course they are faster and longer than the Spider so it overlaps more distance wise with the Coyote. So with distance separation the Cro pairs up better with the Coyote than the Buzzz.