large old man seeks technical review

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large old man seeks technical review

Postby aDave » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:48 pm

Still in my work clothes!
I guess I should pull my jeans up.
I was attempting to throw flat and this is about 2/3 of full "power"
How am I doing?
Throws were aviar, river, valk, river
Google earth claims that the rivers and valk were at ~290 with the aviar at ~250
Thanks for any input.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby JR » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:10 pm

You don't have much pause so the elbow ain't forward enough when the body starts to turn from facing 90 degrees to the left of the target. Can you bend your knees more so that there is more distance that the left leg can push for a faster turning toward the target? I have been more overweight than i'm now and i certainly was limited in the amount of hip twist i could get from the fat. Before i hurt my back i could manage a little hip twist and more shoulder turn. It looks like getting the shoulders to turn should be easy. The follow through of the arm seemed to be higher than the plane of the throw. Did the discs have too much hyzer or did they flip up or was the raising of the arm so late that it had no effect on the release angle?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby aDave » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:18 am

Thanks JR. I wondered about the pause. I don't have a clear idea about how to achieve it. In the past I have tried to get the elbow more forward. This usually results in
griplock. I'm guessing that this could be due to lack of shoulder rotation?
I noticed the followthrough on a different plane too. Everything came out flat, but I wonder if that's one of the reasons I hyzer out standstill shots sometimes.
It's not effecting the flight on drives as far as I can tell, but I will focus more on that too.
I've gained about 20lbs from sitting at the desk, Maybe one day I can loose the weight.
Any ideas on how to work on the pause? For what it's worth, I had a spinal fusion surgery 23 years ago, but I haven't had any issues with that as far as I can tell.
I've read posts where you talk about subconscious protection against injury. Maybe it's a factor.
Thanks again.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby seabas22 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:38 pm

Don't push from your rear heel. That doesn't rotate the hips properly.

Check this out:
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby JR » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:11 pm

I don't know how stiff the back and which part is after a fusion surgery but it sounds like lower back and a very very stiff back in which case you shouldn't push and just accept that you're fucked like i'm most likely. In your case the subconscious protection ain't the only factor because what you have is basically an iron rod in the back so there is real mechanical resistance involved and there is no way around that so i wouldn't push there at all. Only a medical professional can tell if there is something that can be done and how much you can push safely.

I think there is a pause thread or it's embedded in one of the stickies. Legs, hips and shoulder need to turn in unison to keep the disc moving in a straight line so having hip issues means that you have even less margin of error with the legs and the shoulders and can't really fail there. So that is something that needs to be polished. The right pec drill starting position is good feel wise to which you should aim for to get the pause to be long enough. The mind is the largest factor in getting it right. There is a form issue too meaning things will get much easier when you move from the reach back to left pec position from the x step momentum without pushing actively forward with the left leg. The left leg needs to be on hold a little longer than that so that you can move the elbow forward and the disc to the right pec from the shoulder. Only then should the left leg start to push the knee from bent to straight.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby aDave » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:00 pm

I played half a round with my daughter this morning and messed about with the video concepts.
I was griplocking the shit out of everything, but it feels 'right'.
I get the feeling that it's going to take a whole lot of work to integrate, but it will be worth it.
JR your explanation, makes sense too. It clarifies the timing a bit, which I have never really had a good handle on.
Thanks
As far as the surgery goes, I"ve lived with it for long enough to not worry too much about it.
My fusion is only the last two vertebra, so I can still rotate, just not with the ideal (evolutionarily intended) leverage.
I swear that if I twist myself in half trying to throw like Beato, I won't blame you.
I WILL sue innova though lol.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby seabas22 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:30 pm

Yep, getting the elbow forward and proper weight transfer/posture should help with the griplock.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby Mark Ellis » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:56 am

Hey large old man! I feel like I already belong to this club.

I watched the video but the video didn't show me how the discs flew. I would say that if the discs were flying on the line you intended then the shots and the form looked good. If the discs were not flying well then the form was not to blame, you just need more practice to control the shots.

Why do you want to change your form? What are you seeking? If with this exact form you were winning in Pro would you still want to change it?
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby aDave » Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:20 am

Mark Ellis wrote: Why do you want to change your form? What are you seeking? If with this exact form you were winning in Pro would you still want to change it?

I shoot pretty well at my three home courses. I've got positive handicaps in the am leagues that I play. I really enjoy folks being impressed when they see me park a hole with an rpro Aviar that they use a Nuke on. I've loved this game since the moment my first drive hit a tree 15 feet off the tee.
I would also like to be able to shoot well on courses that need longer drives. Right now the best I can do in a round is about '350, if its slightly downhill. I would love to be able to extend that out another 100 feet.

I also enjoy the process of learning, and I'm sort of a nerd about biomechanics.
I started playing in late 2009 and intend to play this game til I die, so I want to make sure that I nail really "good" form before I get to stiff and sore to get any better.
By good form I mean one with the least amount of wasted energy that gives the best results.
And yes even if I was winning pro, I would still be looking to get better.

By the way, based on your raving about them, I picked up a Rattler this weekend. It's a funky little disc, but it seems to fit my putting form really well.
It doesn't drop like the Yetis that I've been using lately, giving me more confidence on putts right at the edge of the circle.
Time will tell, but thanks for the evangelism.

I forgot: Yes the discs flew as intended.
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Re: large old man seeks technical review

Postby Mark Ellis » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:53 pm

aDave wrote:
Mark Ellis wrote: Why do you want to change your form? What are you seeking? If with this exact form you were winning in Pro would you still want to change it?

I shoot pretty well at my three home courses. I've got positive handicaps in the am leagues that I play. I really enjoy folks being impressed when they see me park a hole with an rpro Aviar that they use a Nuke on. I've loved this game since the moment my first drive hit a tree 15 feet off the tee.
I would also like to be able to shoot well on courses that need longer drives. Right now the best I can do in a round is about '350, if its slightly downhill. I would love to be able to extend that out another 100 feet.

I also enjoy the process of learning, and I'm sort of a nerd about biomechanics.
I started playing in late 2009 and intend to play this game til I die, so I want to make sure that I nail really "good" form before I get to stiff and sore to get any better.
By good form I mean one with the least amount of wasted energy that gives the best results.
And yes even if I was winning pro, I would still be looking to get better.

By the way, based on your raving about them, I picked up a Rattler this weekend. It's a funky little disc, but it seems to fit my putting form really well.
It doesn't drop like the Yetis that I've been using lately, giving me more confidence on putts right at the edge of the circle.
Time will tell, but thanks for the evangelism.

I forgot: Yes the discs flew as intended.



Well maybe biomechanics hold the answer but it is not the first answer I would give. I have yet to witness an established player make a big skill jump from distance drills (although those testimonials may be forthcoming). What I have seen countless times is this: If you want to throw farther and more accurately then play long, tough courses with good players. Watch what they do, mimic it and fight to compete at their level. There are probably a few youtube videos of players throwing far. Watch and mimic them too.

It is difficult to change your arm speed or snap (except gradually over time) but releasing flatter and cleaner will produce better glide with no more effort or strength. Smooth, flat, clean and balanced will only help your accuracy and eventually add distance.

Of course the Rattler is not a power disc. It is a touch disc. Never throw it hard or into the wind. It ain't a pick axe. It is a scalpel. It is easier to carve strokes with a putter than it is a driver.
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