Eliminating OAT

[smook]

I want to know what the usual symptoms are of throwing with OAT and what discs/drills can help eliminate OAT to throw with max potential??

[Blake_T]

an obvious symptom is flutter.

less obvious symptoms may include but are not limited to:
-"needing" to throw discs that are too fast/heavy/overstable for your realistic power level (the "i throw 250' but anything less than a max weight destroyer and it's a roller" disease)
-discs performing unwanted changes in angle during their flight when they "should not."

OAT can be caused by the wrist, elbow, shoulder, or weight shift.

honestly, max potential is being able to intentionally throw with OAT, but tailoring the types of you want to apply in order to exert maximum control and shape the shot to your liking.

if you already throw with OAT, you need to learn how to shut it off before you can learn to apply it at will.

when i meet severe OATers i tend to teach them a knife hyzer and a roller... which use the most extreme planar shifts possible. unintentional OAT usually disappears after that.

other drills might be throwing understable discs on gentle hyzer lines and trying to get them to ride the angle the whole way.

[smook]

And what is a sure way to know if you have eliminated your OAT problem?

[Jewdy]

When I think I am having OAT, I like to throw some slower neutral plastic for max distance and see if it flips. I think a Z Comet is best for this but an Axis, Wizard, BB Aviar, Shark etc. will work. Go to a field or a hole where you aren't throwing into a headwind and see how far you can throw it, don't hold back. If you need more than a slight hyzer, to get a straight flight, you have OAT problems.

[smook]

I also heard about the X comet, which is better for understanding OAT? Z or X?

[seabas22]

Either plastic is fine for all intensive purposes.

[JR]

The Comet and the Axis both are also very sensitive to too much finger pressure on the underside of the disc. Any finger dragging and sticking hurts. The harder you snap these discs especially, but it applies to others too, the faster the fingers open when the disc rips out so the chance of fingers sticking to the rim for a short time or dragging along the bottom of the disc is reduced. That means going slowly in until the disc is by your right side and then accelerating hard means that you can hold on to the disc longer accelerating in the end much faster for close to similar speeds with added spin and a quicker more forceful moving of the fingers from the disc. For a cleaner release. Right pec drill helps in timing and getting clean releases.

Plane preservation is mandatory. If you move the arm flat the arm needs to move flat after the disc has left the fingers. Always turning the thumb down after the disc has left helps a ton in maintaining the proper movement direction with the arm. In eliminating OAT you can't roll the wrist in clockwise or counter clockwise manner. To help in avoiding making problems that can lead up to OAT see my signature for advice. Also pulling close to the chest and getting the elbow forward closer to the target than the right side when the torso faces 90 degrees left of the target helps too. And only after that should you push hard with the legs and twist the hips chopping the elbow straight.

[pask2155]

an obvious symptom is flutter.

less obvious symptoms may include but are not limited to:
-"needing" to throw discs that are too fast/heavy/overstable for your realistic power level (the "i throw 250' but anything less than a max weight destroyer and it's a roller" disease)
-discs performing unwanted changes in angle during their flight when they "should not."

OAT can be caused by the wrist, elbow, shoulder, or weight shift.

honestly, max potential is being able to intentionally throw with OAT, but tailoring the types of you want to apply in order to exert maximum control and shape the shot to your liking.

if you already throw with OAT, you need to learn how to shut it off before you can learn to apply it at will.

when i meet severe OATers i tend to teach them a knife hyzer and a roller... which use the most extreme planar shifts possible. unintentional OAT usually disappears after that.

other drills might be throwing understable discs on gentle hyzer lines and trying to get them to ride the angle the whole way.

What is a knife hyzer?

And do under stable discs bring OAT issues out more than over stable discs?

[Star Shark]

Knife hyzer is AKA spike hyzer. A nearly vertical hyzer shot.

[JR]

an obvious symptom is flutter.

less obvious symptoms may include but are not limited to:
-"needing" to throw discs that are too fast/heavy/overstable for your realistic power level (the "i throw 250' but anything less than a max weight destroyer and it's a roller" disease)
-discs performing unwanted changes in angle during their flight when they "should not."

OAT can be caused by the wrist, elbow, shoulder, or weight shift.

honestly, max potential is being able to intentionally throw with OAT, but tailoring the types of you want to apply in order to exert maximum control and shape the shot to your liking.

if you already throw with OAT, you need to learn how to shut it off before you can learn to apply it at will.

when i meet severe OATers i tend to teach them a knife hyzer and a roller... which use the most extreme planar shifts possible. unintentional OAT usually disappears after that.

other drills might be throwing understable discs on gentle hyzer lines and trying to get them to ride the angle the whole way.

What is a knife hyzer?

And do under stable discs bring OAT issues out more than over stable discs?

Understable disc in your hand does not automatically worsen your form to produce more OAT. The understability won't mask the OAT as much or as soon as with a overstable disc. An overstable driver can stop wobbling so quickly that it's flying stable but slowed down from the previous wobble before your sight returns to normal from the shaking and quick movements. Eyes focusing is so slow.

[pask2155]

Well I think this is something that has become an issue for me. I have tweaked and changed a lot lately with form for driving and I don't think this is much of an issue with that. Even misdated fine. But as far as putter. Yikes! Not good at all. They all wobble on me... Any suggestions? It's like if I'm not at full power it's wobbling

[itlnstln]

For me, OAT shows up when I'm trying to throw too hard (strong-arming) and my arm doesn't finish on the same plane as my intended throw (I try to "pound the hammer" too hard and my arm/shoulders finish lower than my throwing plane). IOW, I start hyzer and finish flat. In any case, slowing down and focusing on keeping everything on the same line helps. As for putters, I have the same problem occasionally when I try to throw Aviars, Wizards, or other deep-rim putters. I have small hands and I don't grip those putters very well. I have amassed a stack of Champion Classic Rocs that I use these days. While they might be a little fast, in theory, for putting, the shallow(er) rim provides a clean rip/release on both drives and putts which more than makes up for any deficiencies they might have for putting flight-wise. Champion Classic Rocs are rare, so if you want to try something similar, Discraft's Zone is kinda close. I haven't thrown many, though, so you might want to ask others that have about best plastic and whatnot. As far as the DX and CFR Star Classic Rocs, I find them to be domey and otherwise suck in general. The flat-top, blunter Champs are where it's at.

[pask2155]

Yeah the deep rim is why I hate putters. Lol. I had a challenger and moved to a dart because of the shallower rim. This is much easier. But recently I bought a MVP anode and its a wobble fest!

So I'm trying to figure it out but even under stable drivers and mods like the meteor I don't have this problem. It's these dang putters with the deeper rim.

So I'll try slowing down and releasing hyzer flips for now and see what happens. But in general I would like to solve this not just cope with it. So all the help I can get is awesome!

[JR]

What helped me most was realizing that i'm exceeding the designed speed of some putters pretty easily and getting sticking or more like scraping fingers on the rim and the bottom of the disc. The solution for me is to keep the pinky to middle finger moderately tense never clenching hard unless you're in the end of an anny and keeping the index finger barely touching the rim for everything before the pinch. The pinch with the index finger can't be as hard for me or an unclean release follows almost always.