FTT's Bag

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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Roottori » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:19 pm

Hi,

how have Valks been working for you? By bag has settled around few molds I really like (Aviar, Roc, Eagle and Predator), but I have had hard time finding a good distance driver. It seems we are at quite the same power level (you may have little bit more distance), so I would be glad to hear your opinion about them. I would also like to hear something about Sword that you used with your Valks, if you don't mind.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:38 pm

Roottori wrote:Hi,

how have Valks been working for you? By bag has settled around few molds I really like (Aviar, Roc, Eagle and Predator), but I have had hard time finding a good distance driver. It seems we are at quite the same power level (you may have little bit more distance), so I would be glad to hear your opinion about them. I would also like to hear something about Sword that you used with your Valks, if you don't mind.


Hey man, I've been throwing Champ Beasts the last few months. But here's the rundown on Valks: I have two 170 champystar Valks, which were from an x-out run of realllly clear blue "star" plastic (the most see-through star plastic I have ever seen). They are minimally domey, had decent glide, and once broken in would flip from a shallow hyzer and carry to 350' no problem. I had a few other valks in rotation from time to time, but none would perform like these.

But the last few months I have been throwing Champ Beasts. Mainly because Champ Valks were starting to only come out in plus molds (not sure if that will be the norm). I have two that I really like, 167 and 168. The 167 is domey and turns like my most worn-in Valk, but is much less likely to turn-and-burn...my guess is the Beasts have more dome and flex back better. The 168 is moderately domey and it turns like my least-worn Valk. But here's the biggest difference: these Beasts have less fade, more glide, and thus they carry further than my Valks. The only down-side is they are less reliable because of a softer fade, but if that's an issue I'll use more hyzer or pull out a PD.

I would say you can't go wrong with either. If you find some domey champ or champystar Valks, grab them. If you can find these new runs of clear, gummy Champ Beasts with good dome, grab those. They should be longer than Valks.

And about the Sword - I lost it a few weeks ago. But it would carry really far. I'm considering putting Swords in my bag in the future if I want something faster than Beasts. My VIP Sword had minimal dome, but it would glide fairly well. It was basically a line-holding distance driver with a late fade. I wish I didn't lose it, because I'm sure it would have broken in to a nice gently turning distance driver with minimal fade.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby dgdave » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:00 pm

Hit me up if those 2 PDs don't work out for ya
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:07 pm

dgdave wrote:Hit me up if those 2 PDs don't work out for ya


Will do...but highly unlikely. If these turn out to be what I am expecting, I'll be loving them.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Roottori » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:17 am

Fightingthetide wrote:Hey man, I've been throwing Champ Beasts the last few months. But here's the rundown on Valks: I have two 170 champystar Valks, which were from an x-out run of realllly clear blue "star" plastic (the most see-through star plastic I have ever seen). They are minimally domey, had decent glide, and once broken in would flip from a shallow hyzer and carry to 350' no problem. I had a few other valks in rotation from time to time, but none would perform like these.

But the last few months I have been throwing Champ Beasts. Mainly because Champ Valks were starting to only come out in plus molds (not sure if that will be the norm). I have two that I really like, 167 and 168. The 167 is domey and turns like my most worn-in Valk, but is much less likely to turn-and-burn...my guess is the Beasts have more dome and flex back better. The 168 is moderately domey and it turns like my least-worn Valk. But here's the biggest difference: these Beasts have less fade, more glide, and thus they carry further than my Valks. The only down-side is they are less reliable because of a softer fade, but if that's an issue I'll use more hyzer or pull out a PD.

I would say you can't go wrong with either. If you find some domey champ or champystar Valks, grab them. If you can find these new runs of clear, gummy Champ Beasts with good dome, grab those. They should be longer than Valks.

And about the Sword - I lost it a few weeks ago. But it would carry really far. I'm considering putting Swords in my bag in the future if I want something faster than Beasts. My VIP Sword had minimal dome, but it would glide fairly well. It was basically a line-holding distance driver with a late fade. I wish I didn't lose it, because I'm sure it would have broken in to a nice gently turning distance driver with minimal fade.


Thank you!

I currently have two Pro Beasts in my bag. First one is max weight, it's quite good even in headwind, and another one is 167 and lower PLH, it's quite straight with gentle fade at the end, both have moderate dome. I think there really isn't anything bad about them, but things just haven't clicked with them, which almost instantly happened with my Eagles and Rocs for example. It feels like they lack that last "something" that makes the disc good and fun to throw, I just don't know what that last something is.

Swords are quite tempting (I guess I'd like to have some flashy and glossy plastic in my almost all DX bag... :D). I'm just thinking it might be too much disc for me, I think its speed is somewhere between Wraith and Destroyer? I read the whole Sword-thread, and it seems it powers down better than most drivers in the same speed class, so maybe lighter, lower PLH Tournament Sword would be controllable even for sub 400' thrower... How far did you throw your Sword?
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:48 am

I got mine near 380', but that's because I never got it to break in...I lost it too soon. And yeah, a lighter TP with low PLH would definitely be a great distance driver for our power range. I imagine I could break 400' with a TP Sword (flat ground, no wind).

I'm still learning my Beasts. One thing I love about them is how much they glide, but I think that's because I'm comparing them to my Valks that didn't have much dome (and Valks are 4 on glide, Beasts are 5).

Have you thrown TD's?
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:12 am

TP Sword that i tried flipped more than the VIP i have. The fade and power requirement of my VIP Sword is higher than that of a Wraith.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Roottori » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:49 am

@JR: How power hungry was your TP Sword? If Swords need more or equal power as Wraith, I think I'll pass them. I tried my cousins Pro Wraith, and I couldn't get it to fly correctly, it was just too much disc for me.

@FTT: I've tried TD's a few times, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for. They were too unpredictable in the wind, at least the ones I threw.

I think I'll just throw my Beasts more and see if they would grow on me. I'll propably try to find one gummy and domey Champion to go with my Pros, maybe they'll work once I get to know them better. Also Beast's rim is much more comfortable in my small hand in comparison with faster drivers, so I guess I'll just stick to speed 10 drivers. At least I got one promising throw today with my lighter Beast, I parked 355' hole at local course in headwind. It turned over a hair from flat, tracked slightly to the right and faded gently under the basket for an easy birdie. :)
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:53 am

My TP Sword is first run and they aren't marked differently to later runs and Janne Penttilä of Westside Discs said FRs are a hair more overstable than later ones. Mine is definitely more power hungry than the Wraith. For more fade Champion Starfire (Stars have some flat topped super overstable monsters) or SLs could work because they are halfway discs between the Beasts and the Wraiths. And have thinner wings than the Wraith.

Flat topped TDs flip a lot non see through stiffer S TDs won't flip nearly as much but the Beast is better for everything else but fading more.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Roottori » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:55 pm

Thanks, I think I'll stick to Beasts then.

And FTT, sorry for jacking your bag thread. :?
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:08 pm

No worries! Glad that settled it for you.


Threw the new PD's for the first time today. I think they'll stay. Headwind problems solved.

I would love to find a Leopard with a little more HSS and LSS than my Star. Do the flat Leopards tend to be more stable than the domey ones? (PLH being the same) And what about Champ vs. Star?

Distance:
175 S PD - line-shaping, flat and gummy
168 S PD - point-and-shoot, domey and stiff
167 P PD - turn and fade, flat and stiff
168 Champ Beast - stable distance, no wind or tailwind only, moderate dome
167 Champ Beast - understable distance, no wind or tailwind only, domey

Fairway:
175 11x Champ Firebird - overstable, beat
(looking for a more stable Leopard)
168 Star Leopard - understable/stable lines depending on what's needed

Mids:
180 12x KC Pro Roc - fresh, overstable
180 12x KC Pro Roc - beat, stable
176 DX Roc - getting beat, neutral/understable

Putters:
175 S P2 - overstable
172 D P2 - stable
170 D P2 - putts, neutral drives
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:37 am

Usually Star Leos are the most HSS and LSS ones but Champ is pretty even in HSS but less LSS. For more beefiness you need a River GL is the less LSS plastic and it is still more LSS than the Star Leo.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:09 pm

JR wrote:Usually Star Leos are the most HSS and LSS ones but Champ is pretty even in HSS but less LSS. For more beefiness you need a River GL is the less LSS plastic and it is still more LSS than the Star Leo.


Nevermind that. I'll just get a max-weight Star Leo in the near future once my 168 breaks in.

Stopped by PIAS to make some trades and saw a few Destroyers that made me jump the gun. I found a 145 Blizzard Destroyer with a low PLH and a good bit of dome. Man this thing is sweet! I can't give it 100%, but on 80% it'll turn up past flat from a shallow hyzer and carry reallllly far. Also, I grabbed a new red champystar 173 *DS and a used blue 171 *DS. The blue 171 has a slightly flatter top to the wing near the leading edge, but nowhere near the flattness of Destrulcans. It's much straighter, but still beefy for me. I figure these will be shoes that I grow into. Not sure how far I got them, but I flexed out the 173 *DS on a forehand shot with a tailwind, about 30' apex, and it out-drove everything else on that round of throws by 10'. Probably close to 380' if not more.

Destroyer - PD - Beast - Leopard - Firebird - Roc - P2

Max Distance
173 *DS - overstable max D
171 *DS - stable max D
145 Blizzard DS- understable Max D

Drivers
175 S PD - line-shaping
168 S PD - point and shoot
168 Champ Beast - slightly understable
167 Champ Beast - understable - replaced with 168 Star Leopard below once it break in
168 Star Leopard - fairway - adding a 175 Star Leo once this breaks in

Mids/Utility
175 11x Champ Firebird (beat) - utility - or a flat 12x depending on the course
180 12x Roc (fresh) - overstable - or a flat KC Roc if the winds are howling
180 12x Roc (beat) - stable
176 DX Roc (beat) - understable (rotation)

Putters
175 S P2 - stable
170 D P2 (beat) - understable, putts
Last edited by Fightingthetide on Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:45 am

Sounds legit but the added weight to the Star Leo might be offest by individual disc variations so try to get a domey high PLH one. And if you can loan a Zero G Quasar definitely give it a try because it is longer than the Boss on average for our power level.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm

Update - Putting has improved tenfold after getting some glow KC Pro Aviars, and watching Schuster putt at USDGC's. I noticed that his putt was similar to mine, but watching him in person I could see how I could improve my form and timing. Also, a friend suggested a countdown on painting the pole: 1-2-3-putt, instead of endlessly painting the pole and psyching myself out.

I think I'll stop here for a long while. I'm stoked on this setup. There's a lot in there now, but I'll narrow it down to 12+2 in a Fade Crunch for shorter courses, and I'll probably winnow a few out once I have more time to see overlap.

Innova Competiton Bag - DGA Gel Strapz

Dominator - PD2/Destroyer - Teebird - Firebird - Roc - Rhyno - KC Aviar/P2


Distance
171 FR Champion Dominator - max D
172 S PD2 - beef (instead of an S/DS)
172 Star Destroyer *DS - forehands / control D
168 Champ Beast - long anhyzers
167 Champ Beast - long turnovers

Drivers
172 Champ Teebird - beefy TB
171 Star Teebird - seasoned workhorse
170 Star Teebird - beat to straight
175 DX Teebird - turnovers

Mids/Utility
175 Champion Firebird - pearly beefcake
180 12x Roc (flat) - new, working in to straight
180 12x Roc (fresh) - overstable
180 12x Roc (beat) - stable
176 DX Roc (rotation) x3 - beat, seasoned, new

Putters
170 DX Rhyno - windy approaches, forehands
175 R-Pro Rhyno - sticky, approach shots that need to stop
173 Glo CFR BB Aviar - stable driving putter (stoked on this! gummy, transparent, feels like CE)
170 D P2 - understable driving putter (basically a beat-to-snot KC Aviar)
175 Glo KC Pro Aviar x2 - putts (3 total in rotation)

On standby:
171 Glo KC Pro Aviar
175 12x KC Pro Aviar
175 11x Champ Teebird
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