Unplayable lie clarification

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Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:19 pm

Ok, so I was playing at a tournament this weekend, and the guy in my card threw his disc into a thorn bush on one of the holes. He said it was an unplayable lie(although I have put my foot in much more ferocious bushes), and asked for his relief(up to 5 meters behind the lie). Nobody on the card was really familiar with the rule, so we didn't know to add a penalty stroke, and we let it go. He did the same thing again 5 holes later, and this time I genuinely felt he could get into the spot the disc landed, and mentioned it. He quoted the rule about only the player being able to determine if the lie is unplayable, so I looked it up on my phone. Sure enough it said he can get his relief, and only he can decide whether it's unplayable, but if he takes the drop behind his lie, he also takes a penalty stroke for doing so. I mentioned about the penalty stroke, and at that point he threw a temper tantrum, but accepted the stroke. NOW, here is my question. After I found out about the rule, would he then be able to be stroked for the previous hole, even though we didn't do it immediately, or would it had to have been marked on the card at the time of the incident?
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:22 pm

What makes it matter is that because of that stroke, he tied me for 1st place, and eventually beat me in a playoff. I lost the playoff fair, and square, and left some easy putts out there during the round, but that stroke ultimately did determine the tournament. I'm trying to resolve it in my head so I don't walk around with a grudge. If he genuinely should have been stroked, I'm kind of annoyed that he won, because he was calling people on foot faults, scrutinizing lies that were nowhere near OB, etc. and if he got away with a win that rules would indicate he shouldn't have, I'm going to mention it to him. If I was in the wrong about adding the stroke for the previous "unplayable lie", I can accept it, and move on.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby juju » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:21 pm

So he got 2 penalty strokes or just 1? He should have received 2, and if he only got you got screwed. Lesson learned on your end, our game is full of misinformed people.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby iacas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:04 pm

archimedesjs wrote:I'm trying to resolve it in my head so I don't walk around with a grudge.

If you had a grudge, I'd suggest it should only be against yourself for not knowing the rules of the sport you're playing. That he didn't know them either is immaterial IMO. You didn't bring it up before the scores were entered, either, it sounds like, even though you'd been made aware of the rules infraction later that same round.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby ferretdance03 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:51 pm

You got screwed, by yourself. You obviously had the means to look up the rule later on- if there was any doubt during the first incident you should have looked it up and squashed it when it the first time.

Why people don't carry a rulebook yet insist on calling rules baffles me. If you call me for a violation you better have a rulebook to verify your ruling.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:18 pm

iacas wrote:
archimedesjs wrote:I'm trying to resolve it in my head so I don't walk around with a grudge.

If you had a grudge, I'd suggest it should only be against yourself for not knowing the rules of the sport you're playing. That he didn't know them either is immaterial IMO. You didn't bring it up before the scores were entered, either, it sounds like, even though you'd been made aware of the rules infraction later that same round.


I didn't ask for your personal opinion on how I feel about the situation, frankly because I don't care. I asked a specific question, and you did not answer it.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:20 pm

ferretdance03 wrote:You got screwed, by yourself. You obviously had the means to look up the rule later on- if there was any doubt during the first incident you should have looked it up and squashed it when it the first time.

Why people don't carry a rulebook yet insist on calling rules baffles me. If you call me for a violation you better have a rulebook to verify your ruling.


Again, instead of interjecting your "spin" on the situation, how about just answering the question. What's with you morons thinking I give a damn about your opinions on how I feel about a given situation? I asked a specific question, and neither of you had answered it, but felt it necessary to belittle my opinion on the situation.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:22 pm

SO, how about I simply state the question. If a player declares his lie unplayable, and takes relief, and the scores are marked down for that hole WITHOUT a penalty stroke being added, is the argument for an added penalty stroke over? Or could they be adjusted before the card is turned into the tournament director after the round? Yes, or no?
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby iacas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:33 pm

archimedesjs wrote:I didn't ask for your personal opinion on how I feel about the situation, frankly because I don't care. I asked a specific question, and you did not answer it.

You cared enough to be a jerk just then.

archimedesjs wrote:SO, how about I simply state the question. If a player declares his lie unplayable, and takes relief, and the scores are marked down for that hole WITHOUT a penalty stroke being added, is the argument for an added penalty stroke over? Or could they be adjusted before the card is turned into the tournament director after the round? Yes, or no?

Since you don't know the Rules, perhaps you should spend some time reading the rules.

Literally five seconds of effort resulted in finding this:

E. At the end of the round, each player shall sign his or her scorecard indicating that he or she attests to the accuracy of the score on each hole and the total score. If all the players of the group agree that a hole score was recorded in error, the score may be changed prior to the scorecard being turned in. Players whose scorecards are turned in unsigned accept responsibility for the scores reported.

Wow, that was tough. :?

Learn the rules. You call us names, but you're the one who lost a tournament because you're either incapable of reading or you're too lazy to do so.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby archimedesjs » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:56 pm

Thank you for answering the question :-)
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby juju » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:11 pm

Don't be upset that you lost the tournament because you were too lazy to read the rules. Take it a learning experience.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby fore » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:09 pm

iacas wrote:Literally five seconds of effort resulted in finding this:

E. At the end of the round, each player shall sign his or her scorecard indicating that he or she attests to the accuracy of the score on each hole and the total score. If all the players of the group agree that a hole score was recorded in error, the score may be changed prior to the scorecard being turned in. Players whose scorecards are turned in unsigned accept responsibility for the scores reported.



And another 5 seconds would have resulted in finding this:

804.03.G. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:
(1) Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby Leopard » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:43 pm

oh. fucking. snap.
dude got told by a golfer who got told by a disc golfer. that's one stroke per told, btw.


fore wrote:
iacas wrote:Literally five seconds of effort resulted in finding this:


And another 5 seconds would have resulted in finding this:

804.03.G. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:
(1) Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby cubeofsoup » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:13 pm

Many a jimmy was rustled in this thread.
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Re: Unplayable lie clarification

Postby iacas » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:58 pm

[quote="Leopard"]oh. fucking. snap.
dude got told by a golfer who got told by a disc golfer. that's one stroke per told, btw./quote]
Uh, okay. I answered by pointing out that when he first looked up the rule the second time he could have adjusted the penalty on the previous hole or even before signing the scorecard. Another guy added that penalty throws can even after the card is turned in.

If you think that's a "snap" then you've got a very strange definition. :D He didn't tell me I was wrong. He simply added to the case in pointing out how the guy could have searched for ten seconds and found TWO ways to have won the tournament if he had known the rules. It's not like I said that once the card is signed and turned in no scores can be changed.

He had the rules on his phone, IIRC. Why didn't he look up the rules about when scores are considered official?
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