## Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

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### Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Could I get some clarification on these two subjects? I didn't want to clutter up the myth of disc pivot thread with my personal cries for help.

The shoulder rotation I kind of understand but don't know quite how to apply in real time, pretty sure I'm rotating too soon because I don't feel like I have a pause or a second stage of rotation. The edge around thing I'm not understanding very well, making a bigger arc radius, etc. Quite confuzzled there.

Pics or vids of someone doing it right might help.
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BrotherDave
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Edge around = bringing the outer edge of the disc around/forwards = wrist extension = hammer pound and related drills.

Since golf has been mentioned lately, it's easy to equate the disc golf throw to a golf swing in terms of it's shoulder rotation.

In a golf swing you twist your torso during your backswing. When you start your forward swing things "straighten out" a bit and your arms and club drop into the swing plane. After contact you continue to pull through into the follow through and your shoulders and hips open up forwards.

A disc golf throw has similar stages. Backswing (reachback), "straightening out," and then continuity after the point of contact (point of contact = farthest position forward in the power pocket).

Twirlers have no "straightening out" period and the result is out of control, unfocused power with little control over the disc's momentum.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

I can feel the edge coming around the best when the disc is totally on plane with my forearm. If you can grip the disc so it feels like a natural extension of your forearm, you will feel the edge "coming around" out at the apex of your throw when you go through the motions slowly. At some point the weight of the disc shifts from "behind" your hand to "in front" of your hand, and that is the moment of the hammer pound. Timing shoulder rotation to coincide with that moment is tricky though, and getting the grip pressure with your lock and rip points is also tricky.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Blake_T wrote:Edge around = bringing the outer edge of the disc around/forwards = wrist extension = hammer pound and related drills.

Since golf has been mentioned lately, it's easy to equate the disc golf throw to a golf swing in terms of it's shoulder rotation.

In a golf swing you twist your torso during your backswing. When you start your forward swing things "straighten out" a bit and your arms and club drop into the swing plane. After contact you continue to pull through into the follow through and your shoulders and hips open up forwards.

A disc golf throw has similar stages. Backswing (reachback), "straightening out," and then continuity after the point of contact (point of contact = farthest position forward in the power pocket).

Twirlers have no "straightening out" period and the result is out of control, unfocused power with little control over the disc's momentum.

Oh, duh duh duh duh! Okay, I didn't realize edge around was related to hammer pound drills, I thought it was something new for some dumb reason. Major disconnect on my part.

When you bring the disc into the power pocket, should there be a break in tension before you start chopping the elbow or...? I don't think I'm a twirler, or quite a no-hitter b/c I don't think I'm strong arming at all (habit I forced myself to break after severe tendinitis) but maybe like a quarter-hitter or something.

I'm just really trying to understand the real meat of the throw because right now I'm all fur coat and no trousers. I get complimented on my form all the time and I throw a little farther than most hacks but I know I'm just not getting the power that I could be.

Thanks for reading guys, I really appreciate it.
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BrotherDave
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

When you bring the disc into the power pocket, should there be a break in tension before you start chopping the elbow or...? I don't think I'm a twirler, or quite a no-hitter b/c I don't think I'm strong arming at all (habit I forced myself to break after severe tendinitis) but maybe like a quarter-hitter or something.

you MUST have control of the disc's momentum/center of gravity or the disc will slip. how you manage to do that varies from person to person.

think about how you (should) drive a clover leaf on the freeway. you slow down while you are still moving straight and kill the momentum of the car before you enter the turn or your tires won't grip and you will slide. maintain a balance of speed through the arc with high RPM's, as you approach the end of the arc and it starts to straighten out you accelerate.

95% of disc golfers would skid out at or before the apex.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Blake_T wrote:

95% of disc golfers would skid out at or before the apex.

So what is the signal/clue to start accelerating? I have been just starting when I pass the right pec but I get the impression I'm doing it too fast too soon yet.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

When you reach the front of the power pocket the disc should feel like it weighs a ton. If you enter the pocket with a decent amount of speed, the disc should be exerting 20-40 lbs of force into your hand when you peak in the power pocket's forward position.

Your goal is to control and redirect that momentum like a judo throw (into the arc).

Imagine you are throwing a gallon of milk (8 lbs). How would you go about throwing that? You need to get it's momentum moving in the direction before you can accelerate it...
Blake_T
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Blake_T wrote:When you reach the front of the power pocket the disc should feel like it weighs a ton. If you enter the pocket with a decent amount of speed, the disc should be exerting 20-40 lbs of force into your hand when you peak in the power pocket's forward position.

Your goal is to control and redirect that momentum like a judo throw (into the arc).

What is it that redirects it? shoulder rotation? or wrist extension? or the pinch?

It feels like the farther I put it in the pocket, the harder it is to get it back out before the target line / hit point. I can't find a feeling forceful enough to redirect that 20-40 lbs that late in the throw with everything happening so fast.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

CloudySkyJedi wrote:What is it that redirects it? shoulder rotation? or wrist extension? or the pinch?

It feels like the farther I put it in the pocket, the harder it is to get it back out before the target line / hit point. I can't find a feeling forceful enough to redirect that 20-40 lbs that late in the throw with everything happening so fast.

your arm acts as a guide as the disc turns outward. the initial turn is a very tiny radius as things start to uncoil outwards and it's easy to hold on. later, it becomes more critical your timing and control of the disc's weight.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Shoulder socket acts as the axis of the largest diameter arc that the finger tips can trace but some left to right movement force comes from the elbow chop and wrist snap too and a lot comes from the legs, hips and shoulders having rotational momentum toward the right.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

That makes sense. I think I had another lightbulb click. It's pretty much the right side's only job to manage that weight. I feel like my whole left side's job is to sort of contract into my mid point of the throw. When I'm going to that point, my right side just needs to track correctly to the key positions being ready to redirect and pivot. The force to redirect it is the whole right side using the left side's initial velocity to quickly pivot the discs weight from back, to front, before it leaves.
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Hello All
So I have been working on edge around for a few months now. The results haqve been great. I however don,t get that feeling that the disc weighs a ton when it reaches what I believe to be the end of the pocket. I have to bring the disc in slow to keep me and the discs center of gravity under control (water bottle drill). I also have been gripping hard from the start. Question is am I going to slow to feel this force or am I gripping to hard and therefore don't feel it or am I flat out not getting it if I don,'t feel it? I do note that the deeper I get into the pocket it feels like I won't be able to get the disc out or be able to get uncoiled properly, kind of a jammed up feeling. The disc does come out though usually a to the right. I think my brain is telling me this isn't going to work unless you turn your shoulders early? I know this is a bad description but is this maybe what you are describing as the disc weighing a ton and I just need to hold the shoulders steady. Thanks
SD
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

I just like this video.
keltik
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

keltik wrote:
I just like this video.

Very nice! This sort of throw - simple, short reach-back - is what I am working towards.

Steve's results are better than mine so far, though . . .
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### Re: Shoulder rotation and "edge around" throwing.

Steve's results are better than most everybody's...
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