apache

[Working Stiff]

Before Gateway was know for putters, they were known for the meathook stuff. The Demon, Blaze and Spirit have always dependable meathooks. If you are a torque monkey who is going to throw hyzer/hyzer/putt all day, Gateway is your company.

The big complaint I hear about the Apache is the bead. New players around here for some reason can't throw anything with a bead. To me it's a non-issue, but that's the gripe I hear all the time.

As for the company, they don't seem to focus. We had proto Samurais at our Ice Bowl along with proto Mystics and proto whatever the other mid they just released (Karma?.) People liked them and were ready to throw them, but the release of them was sooooooooooo drawn out that by the time they were approved any buzz built by the protos was long gone. You have to strike when the iron is hot, and they don't.

I think the result of the run inconsistencies, the Quest 10M Brick connection, the Voodoo approval fiasco, and the Ninja (which I still believe was unintentional due to Gateway not understanding the tech specs) have hurt Gateway's perception as a company somewhat. However, disc golfers are pretty laid back to bad business practices (see Grip EQ) and overlook a lot of things like that.

Where I think the real blow to the Gateway driver line-up came was the "mixed bag" attempt to keep Nikko in the fold. Players interpreted that as "Gateway's drivers are such crap they don't even make their sponsored players throw them." The perception that Dave McCormack is a bad businessman can be overlooked by most of us once the disc is in front of us, the the perception that the Apache is crap because they let their main player/representative throw TL's instead lingers when that disc is in your hand.

[money 21]

ok so gateway has:
putters galore, no worries here
Mids: demon, warrior, karma, scout, mystic, element. the demon is a meat hook like a drone and gator. the warrior, karma, scout are solid choices as a main mid, the mystic complimnts the scout well and the element goes well with the other two.
slow fairway: blaze and saber are both solid discs.
Faster fairway: apache really solid (better then the river IMO ) Savage was nice not being made any more. assassin wildly inconsistant, speed demon and spirit do the same thing they should drop one.
drivers illusion may be one of the best fh rollers ever made good fh drivers but has some consistance issues. slayer I have been able to crush these with a fh alittle to overstable for my bh but great flyer. samurai another great flyer. diablo dt I little the think out side the box on the dt stuff but they need to let go. Dave told me that they were going to run some of these with out the dimples and i hope they do.

I also think they should start making brighter colors. bright colors are easier to find, disc golfer don't like to lose there plastic.

They should also find a couple guys not happy with innova or discraft and sponcer them. westside did that with and it is working out for them.

also i taught a class for 8-12 year old this year gateway gave me a great price on some 150 s scouts and s wizards. it worked out well so i would like to give propes for that.

[Working Stiff]

also i taught a class for 8-12 year old this year gateway gave me a great price on some 150 s scouts and s wizards. it worked out well so i would like to give propes for that.

Gateway gives us a great price on 150 class Elements and Magics for a kids program. They passed us a box of discs to use as promotional prizes for the beginning of the semester event for students at our local college. They run an endless tab for our broke Club and let us pay back when we can. As far as cutting a guy like me with no money trying to promote the sport some slack, they are great.

Other companies don't seem to get it. Innova is constantly trying to push me into the EDGE program, which is set up for schools. The point of my program is not to have 50 discs I can use to hold demos and I don't need any freaking baskets because I hold my program in a park with a course. I give each kid a Magic and Element and those are their discs to keep and use. Giving them the discs so they can go play is key to what I do, and that seems to be totally over Innova's head. I need a company to work with me on price so I can afford to give away 100 discs a year, and Gateway does that.

I backed up my kids program with a kids division for the Ace Race this year, and Discraft wouldn't even consider selling me a second prize pack. They tried to get me to buy like 40 or 50 discs wholesale instead of the eight I needed. I had my kids Ace Race division, and the kids won Gateway discs at a Discraft Ace Race because Gateway generally will take care of you when you are promoting the sport.

All of which has nothing to do with the Apache, but whatever.

[money 21]

the apache is still holding strong in my bag waiting to see how it brakes in but this hpp plastic seem real durible.

[victorb]

That hpp takes a really long time to break in, so get comfy because if you want to see it wear in it will probably be in your bag for quite a while.

[money 21]

That hpp takes a really long time to break in, so get comfy because if you want to see it wear in it will probably be in your bag for quite a while.

hey been throwing the shit out of my hpp apache and it still looks new. this is one great flying disc. really think people should give it another look.

[JR]

Nothing wrong with it. I just like discs that fall on either side of it Leopard for straighter finish and River for more D and just a hair more fade. Considering i've thrown and loved the Leo for years and the River has taken the place of the Leo in general use falling in between is not a bad thing at all. I recently tested Leos in field practice and they flipped less than ever because of added grip power thanks to my arm finally handling more than a few throws per day with the Jenkins thumb use. Champ flipped two degrees and 175 Star did not at all. Wow! I gotta play rounds with them to see if they make it back to regular use

[money 21]

you throw your river father then an apache? that surprises me. i thow apaches father with very little turn and a late fade.

[niuvalleycane]

may have to give one a try...

[dgdave]

I would just pass on this one to be honest.

[JR]

you throw your river father then an apache? that surprises me. i thow apaches father with very little turn and a late fade.

The River has a weird power/spin requirement. At below about 370' it fades out and the glide is great but the disc drops fairly quickly from tilting in the hyzer. It power down nicely from that distance. There seems to be a discontinuity at least for me with the River because when i get a good rip the fade hits later and is mildly less and the great glide carries it farther so it is somewhat touchy to range with. Because 370'-400' is a large difference in power requirement for me. A great rip goes to 413' for me and 400-413' is not a detectable difference in power generation for me it comes more from apex height and hyzer angle.

The Apache has a way lower power requirement so do your Rivers fade out early? How far do you throw them? IIRC i top out at 386' with my E Apache and it is linear in power generation vs D for me. So it sounds reasonable that you have enough power to keep the Apache from fading too early but not enough with the River. How far do you throw these and fast discs? Maybe our power and/or spin difference is the difference. i have heard from 300-350' throwers that Rivers fade out for them and they throw farther with Valks when i need a way more rare success with a Valk to get to the same D as the River. Valks fade out for me unless it's a DX but i really dislike broken in ones. I prefer high HSS.

[money 21]

yeah i amd throwing the apache in the 350 and a river around 340 so not a big difference but i have just felt like there is more potential in the apache.

[JR]

jenb also reported that the River is fading out early for her and she was getting other discs farther so the River seems to be a Jekyll/Hyde disc power requirement wise for others too. When you add more power behind the Apache it adds distance linearly and the River starts to shine at power that propels fast discs to 400' or more so it should have two power requirements thanks to the discontinuity point at say 380'to 400' with a sharp power requirement increase. Which also straightens out the flight line at 400'+.