Power/technique question...

[pask2155]

Well I read tons on here and currently I am working on breaking through the 350'-380' average barrier... Currently I go out to throw and most of my discs drop in this range... But 1 of 10 or so will break into 400'-420'...

So here's just a thought... I think this is happening because I am trying to kill it when I get into the bigger drivers... So I read a ton about discing down or using putters to fix form... And I have done this with success... I can throw a putter (MVP ION) pretty much on a line 250' to sometimes even 300'. I can throw my buzz 300' pretty consistently... I can also throw my leopard and eagle 330-350 pretty consistently... But then get into the bigger drivers and i'm only averaging about 20'-30' more than my eagles.. So for me here's where I think the trouble comes in... I get into any disc 11 speed or larger and I'm not gaining that much... and I think it is because I am trying to kill it and it is messing up my form...

So here's my question... if I throw throw a putter 250' (and from reading on here, that means your form is pretty good at that point), then I take my nuke... and throw it with the same arm speed, the same form, actually mirror what I do with my putter... How far (in theory) should it go?

[keltik]

one thing most people forget when it comes to the fastest drivers is that the wider wing reduces your grip strength. grip strength is insanely important when throwing far.

What do you have in between your Eagle and Nuke. That's a pretty big jump. Do you have anything in the Wraith speed category? the speed 10/11 discs are becoming underrated but could prove to be a better bridge between a fairway and the Nuke/Boss speed discs.

Blake had a "chart" once upon a time that had this exact information. have to search for it.

[allsport1313]

Exact same for me as the OP said. My Wraiths go about the same distance as my Leos and Teebirds (~360). I've actually taken them out of my bag for now. Maybe it is because of my freakishly small hands... seriously my power grip barely gets all the way around the rim with my chick hands.

[allsport1313]

I also wouldn't be surprised if its just that I can't throw far/hard enough to utilize a high speed driver

[pask2155]

Yeah at this point between there I have a pd, wraith, sword, or blizzard destroyer. So I have plenty between there. And still the nuke and wraith goes the furthest. It's just sometimes they don't. I'm inconsistent. But real consistent with putters and fairway drivers... So I guess it's weird that when I go up I don't increase is all...

[itlnstln]

Exact same for me as the OP said. My Wraiths go about the same distance as my Leos and Teebirds (~360). I've actually taken them out of my bag for now. Maybe it is because of my freakishly small hands... seriously my power grip barely gets all the way around the rim with my chick hands.

I hear ya. I'm in the same camp. I switched from the "Climo grip" to a standard power grip, and that helped a ton although I rip from my middle and index fingers now which I guess isn't a bad thing.

I was having a similar problem with my fastest drivers (Wraith, Dominator, etc.) not going much farther than my Teebirds, and what fixed it for me was nose down. I was (am) using Blake's hammer pound and what I figured out was I couldn't get my wrist to extend very far in the cocked-down position, thus when I would pound the hammer, the disc was coming out nose up. While I was pushing Rocs and Teebirds out pretty far, faster drivers weren't showing the same increases in distance. I started focusing on keeping the wrist cocked-down while still throwing the edge around and the big(ger) D started to occur. I also believe that when I focused on this form change, I shifted my throw from the hammer-pound to something that looked more like Beto's rail.

Another thing to keep in mind is the quick vs. powerful thing someone mentioned not too long ago. I find that a quicker, looser ("fluid" might be a better word here) out motion with proper grip timing is just as effective (if not more so) than trying to really gun the out motion with a vice-like grip.

Sorry for the rambling WOT.

[JR]

Nose angle is worlds apart more critical with speed 11 than speed 7 discs. Even the least fading long disc Beast at speed 10 isn't exactly forgiving of nose angle even though it is half as punishing nose up than the Wraith. Why? Multiple answer time but a major issue is air time. If distance equals average speed times air time you don't need to throw harder if you can extend the flight time- Even if the average speed dropped from the drag as along as your exit speed remains the same. Enter s-curves, low power requirement discs, light discs and low fade discs to extend the air time. Light discs can add to the exit speed bumping average speed and maintaining the disc longer above cruising speed retarding the tilt of the fade extending the ability of the disc to resist gravity. A low power requirement disc should need little spin to avoid fading until very late but for 350' throwers those discs are few or too slow=mids/tweeners too often. Maybe future discs make that approach possible. No fade means max glide until the disc hits the ground. Maybe you could call the Sidewinder no fade with low spin requirement=low grip strength requirement. Winds? Sorry you're gonna lose with the winder and Beast is the answer. Neither has the greatest grip strength requirement for a fairly long throw. The Sidewinder has another advantage to the Beast beside the fade and that is the least nose up angle punishing fast fairly long disc. And for a less than pro power it has so little spin and power requirement that it acts like an equalizer to the more HSS and LSS discs faster throwing players use. Just because there is no HSS enough disc for them that fades as late or little. King in the most overstable high PLH domey VIP comes closest to that and still at 400'+ and 20 revs per second it fades out big time for me but can't handle headwinds. Physics limitations and designs so far haven't produced high powered Sidewinders in better performance than the Beast. Which is only a little shorter than speed 13 discs for a power and spin limited thrower like me.

[garublador]

I can throw a putter (MVP ION) pretty much on a line 250' to sometimes even 300'. I can throw my buzz 300' pretty consistently... I can also throw my leopard and eagle 330-350 pretty consistently... But then get into the bigger drivers and i'm only averaging about 20'-30' more than my eagles..

Those sound like normal numbers to me. You may not be at the normal last plateau before half hitting. My guess is there's some little thing that would get you 10'-30' more on most of those numbers without adding any wrist extension. High speed drivers aren't magic discs that automatically fly 400'. They're still incremental improvements over fairway drivers. They also happen to be more difficult to grip and throw. The biggest advantages you'll see until you start half or full hitting with them is distance on hyzer lines, distance on low lines and penetration into the wind.