critique please...

[JR]

It is difficult to say everything with 100 % confidence because you slid forward on the grass and that ruins many things form wise. It makes raising the right ball of the foot for a clean pivot hard and pushing with the left leg at least partially ineffective. So you lacked initial momentum for the body rotation and your hips were just cruising along with the legs not adding anything so it is no wonder that the shoulders weren't firing fully either. One thing can be said fairly certainly. You tried too hard and were in the words of Barry Schulz herky jerky. You punched the arm back to the not longest possible reach back and yanked the arm immediately forward at full power. Strong arming to the max and i can't confirm measurements wise the words of a couple of way more physical throwers than me that they throw farther yanking immediately after planting the final step.

For me it took a long while to get nearly as close with the yank to a late acceleration shot. But i'm not too strong and fast and have way more experience with late acceleration. Overall most seem to fall in the same category with me in that not pulling as fast as possible from the farthest point of the reach back seems to give the longest throws. But i have problems holding on to the discs for a full pivot anyway so it makes sense starting slower limiting speed in the inward movement of the arm helps in holding on to the disc. YMMV based on many things like finger strength, nerve speed and the lack of explosiveness that could force you to accelerate early to gain the maximum speed you can generate. The funny thing is that the guys that do throw far are explosive. They have enough power to keep on accelerating (probably) until the end of the throw which is the goal according to Newtonian physics F=MA. A being acceleration F being force.

What i'd like to you to try is staying more relaxed mentally and in the arm muscles (like fully minus dropping the disc) and don't start killing it with the arm until later and gripping harder later to not have an early slip. Because everyone has different bodies you need to chart which way gives you the most power so i'd try different arm acceleration positions. At least when the disc is around the right pec because that is the starting point to many drills here and a common ground for people to compare their results with yours. Overall i think the more athletic you are the earlier you can start to accelerate.

[pask2155]

I guess that's where things are getting real frustrating is I think in my mind I am waiting until the last second to pull. But videos don't lie. I just don't know what or how to make these shifts. And I don't know anyone who can throw farther than me so to ask for advice in person is a wash.

So I'll keep at it. But what do you mean about the hips and shoulders not doing much?

[seabas22]

JR is right on. You need to learn a standstill throw though. Your x-step is not helping you get any snap. You open your hips and shift your weight and begin pulling hard before your front foot has landed. All of that should happen after the plant. Everything before the plant should be slow and smooth. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009

[pask2155]

Ok check this one out guys... I slowed down... It is a 320' hyzer shot but let me know if I'm on the right track...

If I was to cratique myself I would say I need to turn my shoulders more away from the target and also get up to full speed at the elbow chop... Obviously I'm way slower overall right now but it's because I'm working on the form...

BUT YOU GUYS TELL ME WHERE IM AT... Here's the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lXlLYEEYMQ

[JR]

You don't use the hips and the shoulders much in the forward part of the throw and that is best learned with that shorter reach back. Once that is fine you should try to add more distance to the reach back. Once it is fine you should add speed in small increments and back off once you form starts to deteriorate. Were you meaning to throw high? Your reach back was low and the rip fairly high leading to a quickly climbing and slowing down throw.

Edit: i was supposed to comment on the right leg rising from the hip joint during the plant step. That lengthens the stride and straightens the leg making it more likely to stop the forward momentum and heel pivot. So it should be reduced.

[pask2155]

Yes I was meaning to throw high. There was a massive tree in front of me and the basket was only 300' away. So I always throw way high so I don't over throw the hole ...

But this is good stuff. So the shoulders and hips still all hit at the right pec right?

[JR]

I'm not sure what you meant with that question. The hips and the shoulders stay at neutral for too long. Both should move right of neutral when the disc is at the right side and before the elbow starts to straighten.

[pask2155]

Ok makes sense now. I've been practicing and I'm getting nice releases. I'll keep practicing and ill post up again! Thanks for all the help JR!

[pask2155]

Ok here's another video... This is a 400' drive into 5mph headwind. Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hUQWX013g

If I had to critique myself I would say I need a better follow through. And maybe a further reach back?

Let me know your thoughts!

[pask2155]

Look at my form difference at the hit from about a month ago to now... This is crazy! And lots of thanks to you guys! I can now hot 400' pretty consistantly.

[JR]

That is a bit flat footed and adding speed on a sandy tee might lead to doing splits. But you would definitely add to power generation by reaching back fully. Your hips are still neutral in every part of the throw. How about do the same form as in this video but jam the plant step on the ground bracing hard with the ball of the foot up to avoid twisting of the ankle and turn at the hips to the right quickly as if you heard a toot from a freight train coming at you 10' away. Fear for life quickness to get the hips turning to the right of standing upright posture. Unless you have back injuries preventing you from doing that. You reached back lower than you released and the nose was up. Getting the nose down is the biggest issue at your current distance.

[pask2155]

That is a bit flat footed and adding speed on a sandy tee might lead to doing splits. But you would definitely add to power generation by reaching back fully. Your hips are still neutral in every part of the throw. How about do the same form as in this video but jam the plant step on the ground bracing hard with the ball of the foot up to avoid twisting of the ankle and turn at the hips to the right quickly as if you heard a toot from a freight train coming at you 10' away. Fear for life quickness to get the hips turning to the right of standing upright posture. Unless you have back injuries preventing you from doing that. You reached back lower than you released and the nose was up. Getting the nose down is the biggest issue at your current distance.

should I try a bigger reach back as well? Or just the hip thing?

[pask2155]

Well I went out and tried this today (the hip thing) and I can see where it would give me a lot more power but it throws my form off a ton and I start strong arming the disc again. So I'm gonna have to take some time and work on this...

[JR]

Reach back and the hips both and it took me months to get balanced and timed properly.

[pask2155]

How much you think I will gain from doing that?