Wofle's bag

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Wofle's bag

Postby Wofles » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Alright all you jedi masters, I've been having a conundrum with my understable fairway slot so I'd like some input. For reference I'm 21and have been playing for a year and a half. I've measured my distances with a measuring wheel at 400 avg/415 max with a wraith and 370-380ish with champ teebirds. I'm looking to jump up to destroyers in the next few months in place of the wraiths.

Like I said, my problem slot is my flippy fairway. I'm looking for the best compliment to my teebirds and mids. Since I started I had been using a star leopard that hasnt been all that understable. I know I could get a pro leo to pair with the star and I would be set, but I'm wondering if I'm not better off using a different mold entirely. From what I've read, people use leopards a lot for lazer shots in the woods and similar long midrange types of shots (especially paired with rocs as leopards can work similar lines but longer). I tend to use a buzzz for all these types of shots and to top that off, the buzzz and fuse are slightly longer mids so I wonder if leopard doesnt clash with long mids like these. I had the idea to throw valks in for that slot after seeing all the newer companies releasing fairways with 1.9 rims like the valk. In addition, all the holes that I would throw a leopard turnover seem to able to be done with a valk as well. I've also read about rivers being longer leopards and longer leo sounds like valk, but is the valk too long? I found a river recently but that one is roadrunner flippy and Valks and sidewinders are also easier to come by. I'm in total indecision about what to do with this slot. Leopards, beat valks/sidewinders, rivers, I've even thought about trying dx teebirds for this. However, I'm not sure how dx would hold up to the Charlotte woods. Any input would be much appreciated.

Distance Drivers

• 172 Z Force – Windy day Max D and Power Hyzers
• 175 Champ Wraith – More stable than the star. Will go straight and fade.
• 175 Star Wraith - seasoned and domey – I throw this for big S shots or hyzer flips on more open holes.
• 175 Thrashed Star Wraith – Big hyzer flips and turnovers

Fairway Drivers

• 172 12x Firebird – Overstable Fairway: Headwind driver and beef hyzers. I don’t use this often as Charlotte courses are mostly in the woods and I feel the Teebirds cover most of my shots. Tends to stay at home unless its really windy.
• 175 Totem Teebird – More stable fairway: I keep this one in there for big hyzers and when I want more fade that the beat bird will give me.
• 170 champ 11x Teebird seasoned – stable control driver: Sniper Rifle
• 168 Champ Valkyrie - Hyzer flips, flat turnovers
167 Star Valkyrie beat - Hyzer flip to turn.

Mids:

• 176 First Run Vector – Overstable mid shots, hard hyzers, spikes, wind, or a shot that just needs to dump out at the end more than a buzzz will
• 177 Z Buzzz seasoned – Main stable mid. All straight shots and smooth hyzers
•180 Glow Buzzz - beafier than the main buzzz.
170 Opto Fuse (flippy): Hyzer flips, annys, and turnovers
177 opto Fuse (more stable): Can crank on this one more the other

Putters:

• 175 SM 12x KC pro Aviar- All putting duties.
• 171 S Ion – Stable Driving, upshots, annies
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby money 21 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 am

try an x plastic xl or xs. a cyclone in x plastic might work as well.
ringer, aero, breaker, glide, sabre, valk, avenger, flick, helios, teedevil, halo
i have seen monkey sh!t fights at the zoo more orginized then this.
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby JR » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:11 am

Welcome. Damn you counted me out with the first sentence but i'l answer anyway :-) DX in drivers won't work for long anywhere near rocks and trees so no go in Charlotte. DX Valk takes one tree hit to become a flip machine. Since you already have the Valk in the bag you should be able to determine if they are too fast for the courses you play paired to the Teebird. Latitude has seriously different flight between some individual discs. Probably from being manufactured in the north of Sweden where the temperature variations between the winter and the summer are huge. Star Leos are the most overstable of the bunch and Pros and a little used DX flip a lot. The Teebird and the Valk are very different in their speeds so that reduces some of the overlap between them. And the Valk in Champ is durable and is not as likely to fade out like the Star so it can be powered down nicely for such a fast driver. Leo and Teebird are roughly the same speed and beating a DX Teebird enough will make it flip to the right so that is always an option to replace the Leo with. The trouble with the rotation of Teebirds around Charlotte is tacoing the DX TB. If you could find a Pro Teebird that isn't KC Pro which is basically Champion plastic that could solve the issue. The River in Gold Line plastic is a very nice disc but the problem of giving advice for a guy that faces tunnels all the time is that i don't know exactly how much flip you need and prefer so i cannot decide based on the information you've given which would suite you the best. Because you carry the Valks already is suggest powering them down and throwing all kind of rounds with them to see how it responds and if it works it cost you nothing :-)

If that does not work i'm going with your ranging info and you using the Buzz/Fuse and recommend the River over the Leopard because the River goes farther so there is more distance separation between the Buzz and the River than with the Leo.

I have a different option for your consideration regarding longer discs. You have enough power to throw every fast driver on the market so why not keep the tried and true Wraith which is among if not the most reliable and easy to throw long distance disc and compliment it with something much longer. Longer than the Destro because it is just a step longer and more LSS than the Wraith? There are plenty of speed 13 discs that outdistance the Wraith so you'd get a different less overlapping flight that reaches more holes. not knowing how discs flip for you and what kind of flight paths and apex heights you prefer it is difficult to recommend any one disc as the best fit for you without info. the usual suspects are Boss, Nuke, Rampage in the hardest plastic for any chance of longevity and Westside VIP King with a tall dome and non drooping outside edge. Which can be hard to hunt down. The King has the least fade and power requirement out of those and also the least distance potential but it is the easiest to throw almost to record distance consistently. Avoid flat Nukes and Kings like the plaque. You have so much power that even the heaviest Blizzard Bosses might flip too much for you but you never know without trying. At your power they are not wind discs except for rear quarter. Blizzard is not that durable especially in the woods and at your power so you decide if you want hot rods that require getting new ones fairly regularly given your surroundings.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby Wofles » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:32 am

@ money21, that is an interesting suggestion. I have no experience with either so do you have one you would recommend over the other for what im looking for? From what I saw, the xl is more like a speed 7 leo and comes in more plastics. If I got that I could grap an x for now and work on seasoning an ESP for the long term. The xs on the other hand seemed closer to a sidewinder or valk from some peoples descriptions. So would it just be like what I have now?

@JR, thanks for the post. I agree with the dx probably not being the option. I'm also just rather tired of Leos. I've rarely thrown them and always would go either fuse or valk instead. I dont know what I think of the river, but that one did not encourage me. It seems like powering down on valks and easing beat stars could certainly work, but all the reading ive done here about keeping molds similar in speed, minimization, and consistency kicks the ocd in gear. I know from field work that valks are certainly longer than teebirds. I've had some insane crushes with them in the 430+ area but that was rare. They do what I'm looking for (flip to flat when new and turnover when broken in), but I cant help but wonder if something more in line with the teebirds are the better option for becoming the best I can be. What are your thoughts on the xl or xs?

Regarding distance drivers, the suggestion you gave me about keeping the wraiths and adding some 13's was precisely my original plan. However, once I threw valks in as a fairway I thought it would be better to go to destros to widen the gap between the fairways and distance (cursed ocd). Maybe that is a bit premature as I get some really nice lines with wraits. The champ can be thrown flat for a big S and the other two are hyzer flip machines. Like a valk on steroids really.
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby JR » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:56 am

In that case the Destro is certainly a better option if you keep the Valks. you have a lot of power at times to get the Valk that far. But i'd use a champ as long as slipping ain't an issue and it might be in the humidity you have there. Champs fade less and thus fly farther and maintain anny longer or with shorter throws. Leos come in DX, Pro, Champ and Star and echo Star if you count that to be a separate plastic and DX has some grip in the wet and cold conditions to half counter the FLX XL. Which is a peculiar disc and the only XL variant i've thrown. It is a very overstable short hard and early fading disc totally unlike any Leo. I've worn mine to be a more overstable version of the Leo but when new it is more like a broken in Banshee. River, Northman, Assassin or Valk one not two because they are so close the each other. They are really variations of the same disc with roughly the same flight for the same role. So a TB + Valk equivalent + Destro is doable but the Destro ain't as controllable and forgiving as the Wraith. Frankly current discs fly so far that i don't see a problem using the Wraith and speed 13 discs. Especially if you pick a speed 13 that has a different flight path either more understable like the most overstable Kings or speed 13 Sidewinders Vulcans or more overstable like the rest of the discs i mentioned earlier.

XS is a different disc in X than Z. X flips a lot for a broken in Valk flight and the Z is more overstable and shorter due to the earlier fade than any Valk and it is a slower disc.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby Wofles » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:29 pm

Well after much deliberation I decided that the best thing for my game was not to change my fairways but drop the buzzz entirely. Ive gotten really good with it but it goes so far it just makes things boring by taking up so many shots (not to mention the issue im having of blasting by baskets). My first thought was to throw rocs. Everyone loves rocs. So I took some rocs I have had sitting around to the field. Couldnt throw them very well. Read about changing my grip to the fork grip and went and tried that. It smoothed things out but I just didnt feel at home. Thats when I grabbed one of my little bro's axis. Boom. Exactly what I wanted. I can throw it similarly to a buzzz but its less driver like and I dont have to throw it as hard. I dont have to learn a new grip either which is a big plus as I cant stand the way the fork grip feels when throwing drives. I might stick with it for putters though. Wouldnt you know it though. As soon as I put leopards back in the bag I birdied hole 2 at scrapyard. 350' through the woods and my 175 domey champ leo was 10' past the basket. Thats the first time i've birdied it by being past the basket as I used to throw a buzzz on that hole. In addition, I hit metal on a 300' foot tunnel shot with the axis. It must be a sign from the disc golf gods.

Distance Drivers

• 172 Z Force – Windy day Max D and Power Hyzers
• 175 Champ Wraith – More stable than the star. Will go straight and fade.
• 175 Star Wraith - seasoned and domey – I throw this for big S shots or hyzer flips on more open holes.
• 175 Thrashed Star Wraith – Big hyzer flips and turnovers

Fairway Drivers

• 172 12x Firebird – Overstable Fairway: Headwind driver and beef hyzers. I don’t use this often as Charlotte courses are mostly in the woods and I feel the Teebirds cover most of my shots. Tends to stay at home unless its really windy.
• 175 Totem Teebird – More stable fairway: I keep this one in there for big hyzers and when I want more fade that the beat bird will give me.
• 170 champ 11x Teebird seasoned – stable control driver: Sniper Rifle
•175 domey champ leo - stable straights shots with little fade at a lower power requirement than teebirds, annies that fight out a little bit.
162 champ leo - big annies, flips, turnovers

Mids:

• 176 First Run Vector – Overstable mid shots, hard hyzers, spikes, wind, or a shot that just needs to dump out at the end more than a buzzz will
179 First Run Axis - lasers in the woods
170 Opto Fuse (flippy): Hyzer flips, annys, and turnovers
177 opto Fuse (more stable): Can crank on this one more the other

Putters:

• 175 SM 12x KC pro Aviar- All putting duties.
• 171 S Ion – Stable Driving, upshots, annies
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Re: Wofle's bag

Postby JR » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:29 am

I'm worried by short left hooks because you don't have very overstable putter or mid so if you learn to power down a driver it will still skip more which is bad around OB and steep drop offs. Great discs have a tendency to reward you when you get good. Some of them put up a fight and only reward you when you've polished your form enough. Leo bends to the will of the thrower much more easily than a Roc. The Roc can be beautiful once it's tamed and the Axis tends to move a lot sideways if you miss your intended hyzer angle. I like the Neutron Axis more than the Proton and the Eclipse because it can be whacked like a driver and it won't flip easily and it is consistent in the hyzer angle keeping it for a very long time. N Ion is easier to get straight than any softness of Proton or Eclipse and N Anode is even straighter in drives.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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