Teach me about "par"

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Teach me about "par"

Postby PMantle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 am

Being new at this, and coming from a background of 25 years of obsession with golf, the only really surprise I have encountered in disc golf is the discussion of par. There were no courses here until last year, so my playing friends and I are all new. Anyway, when questioning the par of a hole, we are met with "everything's a par 3". That simply doesn't work for me....yet, and some of these people get really angry. They comment on one's lack of skill as if that has anything to do with the discussion. Saying everything is a par 3 makes me think of a line from a movie: If everyone's special, then no one is.

In any event, some of us have questioned all of two holes on a certain course. Discasaurus shows the following for these holes:
7. +1.99
13. +1.87
Keep in mind, these are going to be scores from those that care enough to enter them.

The course had its first tournament recently. Here are some results:

Image

I do not have access to the other divisions, but I'm going to assume the scores were higher.

Yes, I realize one's score is their score. That's also true in golf. Anyway, is par even a thought in disc golf? Should there be no par at all? Please help me learn.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:10 am

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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby PMantle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:13 am

I wish it were that simple. If it were, I would not have started this thread. These folks don't want to hear about any silly guidelines.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby chainsmoker » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:26 am

Having played golf for 25 years par is what you think it is, it's no different for disc golf. I think one issue in disc golf is that there actually are a lot of par 3 holes. Some disc golf courses have been designed as all par 3's and some have been made this way by advances in disc technology.
Edit:
par is a chart that applies to every course and changes based on skill level. :oops:
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby Mark Ellis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:14 pm

Par is irrelevant.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby corey115 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:42 pm

At the end of a day, a 52 beats a 53. It doesn't matter if it was -2 beating -1 or a -5 beating a -4.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby fore » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:03 pm

As in ball golf, par in disc golf is the number of strokes an expert (disc) golfer is expected to need to complete an individual hole, or all the holes on a golf course.

The idea that "everything is a par 3" is more for scoring convenience than a meaningful definition of par: rather than adding up the score recorded on each hole, it allows you to tally only the scores on which you scored above and below par, and subtract/add to 54 (= 3x18) to obtain your score for the round. For example, if your hole-by-hole score was:

3-3-2-3-2-2-3-1-2 3-5-3-3-3-3-3-2-3

You would need only need to add the score for the holes shown in blue. The thought process would go something like: -1, -2, -3, -5, -6, -4, -5. Subtracting 5 from 54 yields a total of 49.

Obviously, the system doesn't work as well if par on any given hole is something other than 3, because now you have to look at the printed par on every hole to figure out whether a "2" is a birdie, an eagle, or an albatross, or whether a 4 is a par, a birdie, or a bogie.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby veganray » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:18 pm

Par is a cryptid that is reputed to inhabit frolf holes in courses across the USA and, indeed, the world. It is similar to supposed lake monsters in Scotland and elsewhere, though its description varies from one account to the next. Popular interest and belief in par has varied since it was brought to the frolf world's attention in approximately 1964. Evidence of its existence is anecdotal and extremely flimsy, with minimal and much-disputed photographic material and pseudo-mathematical "proofs" of its existence.

The most common speculation among true believers is that par represents a vestige of a line of long-surviving red herrings of the genus chuckkennedia. The scientific community regards par as a modern-day myth, and explains methods of "calculating" or "measuring" it as a mix of hoaxes, extreme mathematical ignorance, and wishful thinking. Despite this, it remains one of the most famous - and perfect - examples of pseudoscience, and is revered by scores of frolfers the world over. The mythical creature has been affectionately referred to by the nickname "Three" for nearly 50 years.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby keltik » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:37 pm

fore wrote:As in ball golf, par in disc golf is the number of strokes an expert (disc) golfer is expected to need to complete an individual hole, or all the holes on a golf course.


based on this logic we would only need the top two lines in the chart provided by Chuck. And therefore a boatload of DG holes in the world are actually par 2 and thus "not recommended".
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby PMantle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:52 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:Par is irrelevant.

What a strange statement. Especially from someone so involved in the sport. I guess you never make birdies.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby keltik » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:12 pm

The term birdie is irrelevant also.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby veganray » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:15 pm

Par is both an albatross for frolfers and a bogey for statisticians.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby PMantle » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:21 pm

keltik wrote:The term birdie is irrelevant also.

Apparently :lol:
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby chainsmoker » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:41 pm

keltik wrote:
fore wrote:As in ball golf, par in disc golf is the number of strokes an expert (disc) golfer is expected to need to complete an individual hole, or all the holes on a golf course.


based on this logic we would only need the top two lines in the chart provided by Chuck. And therefore a boatload of DG holes in the world are actually par 2 and thus "not recommended".


In golf they take the number of strokes it takes an expert golfer to reach the green then add 2. I'm not one of these lets emulate golf type of guys but par is a pretty good way to describe the difficulty of a given hole. If most people get a two on a hole accross divisions the hole is not designed well. An albatross is a 2 on a par 5.
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Re: Teach me about "par"

Postby allsport1313 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:02 pm

I really don't get the whole "everything is a par 3" thing either. A few of my buddies do that even when we play 700 ft. wooded holes that are marked par 4. As you guys stated par doesn't really matter since scoring is ultimately relative to the scores of other players, but this shortcut doesn't seem warranted to me. If you are going to call every hole a par 3 when some are clearly not, I don't see the utility in using the par system at all.
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