Best into the WIND?

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Postby Thatdirtykid » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:30 pm

Thatdirtykid wrote:i know this is a dying topic, but my opinion has recently changed.
I have about 450' of power, so crushes and similar are not overstable enough for major headwinds.
I used to swear by a Champ Firebird. It would turn some, but would hold its own better than anything I would throw.
I had thrown z predators before, but had no luck. Last week I lost my firebird and had a match planned out for today (its been windy lately) so i really needed something that would hold in a head wind, with predictability. Well about 3 days ago i got to a store that has a pretty limited selection in discs, but they had them.
long story short i got a Z predator.
overall the predator was...

more predictable
further flying
got a bit less lift
and over all it just felt better, and gave me confidence in the wind.

the only downside ive found is its not as great for trick shots such as thumbers and flex shots.

by the way i agree with blake that the dx viper is of the best mid/fairway overstable headwind discs.


Its funny how much you learn in short times, and a look back at something like this makes me feel stupid (and im sure its going to happen again, and again and again...)

However I do still love predators (still missing mine...) I have been using a dx firebird lately and its been holding up into the wind great. (I think pro firebird is still my favorite firebird...) I will be getting another pred soon.

The reason I would even get turn in my champ firebirds into a headwind was my stubborn form. I was throwing everything flat, and trying to have a disc for all situations, not to mention I was throwing for distance with a wrist roll... My distance is about the same still. But Im throwing everything (except annys and some mid type throws) with at least a touch of hyzer. Which has been more accurate, less work and more predictable, especially into the wind.

Now unless the winds are really bad I reach for a Z avenger (which is a bit beat for Z plastic) and it is my longest wind disc, and is plenty predictable, much more than a wraith or others, wraiths still try to get too much turn into the wind even out of a big hyzer.

If I dont need over 385' or so, and theres room The knife hyzer with a firebird (or any very overstable disc) Is my choice.

And in that range but no room for a knife. My new fave headwind disc is my z cyclone, surprisingly overstable and very controlable.

Three molds (although the avenger and predator are very similar) for any headwind, I would say Im doing alright.

I hope you enjoyed my book :roll:
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Postby Weebl » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:06 am

I dont know why, but my 175 Firebird is a PIG. It will NOT TURN into a 50mph headwind if released flat 90% power. It's money in the wind, not very far but it goes where I want it to. Are there different variation of champ firebirds, or are they all fairly similar? Because mine is the flattest disc I own, moreso than my flat top valks and has a sharper nose than any other driver.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:26 am

there have been fx and fl molds, I believe most are in between, and if not most are fl's The fx is more overstable, however they are all plenty overstable for me. I was probably turning them more due to form than the disc.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:42 am

I have tried both a firebird and predator. My views are that they are very similar but the predator is longer for me. The firebird starts its turn quicker, robbing me of distance.

The z predator does come back in the wind if turned. Most people that love firebirds would be surprised if they ever tried a pred. But, they are fairly similar.

I've had my z predator for awhile, and it has broken in enough to be a tad less overstable, almost like a crush. In fact, I have a new z avenger that seems more overstable than my predator at the moment. I need to throw that avenger more. I find myself reaching for my x avenger though.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:09 pm

Yeah, it has taken a bit to get the z avenger anything but very overstable. I also like the predator more than the firebird, its longer and overstable enough I can throw a 169 Z Predator into wind I would have to throw a 175 Champ Firbird, only making the predator longer for me.

My Z avenger has not gotten to the stability point of an x avenger still. (which I dont mind) and it still makes a great headwind driver where I dont want the stability of a pred.
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Postby TexasOutlaw » Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:25 pm

I'm glad someone agrees. The weird thing is my z avenger is lighter than my z predator and still seems more overstable. Of course, I've had the predator for years. I like my predator a little heavier, 172 or 3, just under max weight.
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:20 pm

I wouldnt go as far as my avenger being more overstable, but it makes a great driver for bigger D than the pred. Its definately better into wind than a crush champ teebird or other moderately overstable drivers.
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Postby Kpro » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:38 pm

Im about 15, throwing anywhere from 290 to 350. For me the best headwind driver is a 168 Pro Firebird. I cant seem to get it to turn over except when i break my wrist. :)
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:09 pm

Im throing something new as the most overstable disc in my bag (except the flick which is used for forhand escape shots, thumbers, skip thumbers pankakes, grenades ect)

Its a mid weight DGA Tsunami, Its light enough ( 168? ) for me to get big d, about 20' longer than my z avenger (my other headwind disc) without the wind and its about 50' into the headwind. Im still carrying a 172 dx firbird for some situations also.

I really am liking the Tsunami and I think the max weight tsunami would be an even match for the 169 Z pred ive been missing. its a cross between a wildcat and predator I believe, but I find it to be almost exactly between the z pred and z avenger. Not to mention the plastic feels great. Im afraid that it may replace the pred and the z avenger, which compliment eachother so nicely. and if thats what I choose what will be the fate of my X avengers (anyone know if they make the tsunami in a plastic equlivent to X? :roll: )
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Postby Aaron_D » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:39 pm

Has anyone ever thrown a champion valk???!?! I live in Florida with some of the freakiest wind on the planet, and I swear by this disc! This disc cuts through the wind like a dream. I throw a 175g CE tye dye.
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Postby twmccoy » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:47 pm

Aaron_D wrote:Has anyone ever thrown a champion valk???!?! I live in Florida with some of the freakiest wind on the planet, and I swear by this disc! This disc cuts through the wind like a dream. I throw a 175g CE tye dye.


Actually, the valk in any plastic would be one of the last discs I'd throw in the wind unless it was into a heavy downwind. Into a headwind this disc has nowhere near enough stability to stay flat. If you think that disc cuts through wind, try a flick.
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Postby Aaron_D » Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:53 pm

I'll agree with not throwing my 171 dx valk into the wind, but the 175 champion valk is king of even hurricane force winds! Maybe it's just my throwing style...?
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Postby Thatdirtykid » Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:08 pm

probably has to do more with power and snap, what does the valk fly like without the headwind for you?
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Postby Aaron_D » Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:26 pm

Thrown flat on an open hole I can throw the valk easily over 380' with a nice gradual flip then it will come back for a nice S finish...I have thrown it over 440'+ but given the 3 out of 5 rule I would put my distance with this disc 400'-415'. My longest disc is my 174g 2x Champ Beast, but my goto fairway driver is my 172g bottom stamp tee-bird which flys straight as an arrow. Im 24 and in pretty good shape, so I guess my throws are pretty firm--Ive rolled the CE valk past the tee on my home course which puts it at 600'+...although it is slightly down hill.
Into the wind the valk just seems to slice right through and not get so turned over that it doesnt come back. All my other discs do.
:)
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Postby jiwaburst » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:50 am

I agree about the Champ Valk. It handles a head wind quite well with a hyzer release. Not even close to the way a DX Valk will get tossed around, and I just have a 171 JK 5, no special model.
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