Maxing out @ 300ft...

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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby brutlhonst » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:11 pm

I read about 10 pages of this thread yesterday and tried to simulate the feel with a towel like the one guy suggest...

I went out today and I was able to easily get 50-75 feet on my drives!! Basically I was hitting to early and doing too much "pulling" the disc instead of keeping my arm loose. I also noticed that I wasn't pivoting at all during my throws and tried before to add it which hadn't worked. By swinging my torso more and hitting it later I couldn't help my feet from pivoting.. It felt really good, guys!

I had been maxing out right around 300 and this thread was just talking to me. Of course even with 50-75 feet I'm still not doing great but I was super stoked to have my furthest drives by far today trying to implement some of the suggestions here.

I felt like I had to create an account just to thank you guys... so THANK YOU!
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby JR » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:38 am

Welcome and congratulations! A few years back with older discs 350' accurately was good enough for winning 12 world titles in open division. So you are not doing too poorly by any means but there are discs these days that outdistance the golden oldies.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Monocacy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:15 pm

I had a couple of 330’ flat-ground throws with the Mamba and Krait this past weekend. I was also pushing 300’ with the Diamond and Teebird. Not very impressive in the grand scheme of things, but I have been stuck at 300’ forever so it is reassuring to see some progress.

Adding a little hip twist seemed to give drives some extra juice. I have been working on getting weight forward and late acceleration, and apparently forgot about the lower half of my body. Best of all, I did not have to sacrifice accuracy for “distance”, and was able to hit lines well.

I hope this is repeatable.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby JR » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:04 am

Holey cow! You get a lot of power from the lower half of the body so forgetting that is like driving with the hand brake on. Glad you're progressing. Who knows how much more you can get when you start to optimize the lower half. So that is what i'd concentrate on in the coming months.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby ELItheICEman » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:27 pm

JHern wrote:Two facts:

Fact 1: 300 ft is about as far as most men can throw using primarily the strength of their arm to propel the disc. For women it is closer to 230 ft.

Fact 2: The fact that you get the same distance no matter how you do your step implies that you aren't getting anything out of your legs, which drive your torso, which is the platform for your shoulders...

The sum:

Fact 1 + Fact 2 = You're strong-arming, throwing with your arm, and you're not getting much of anything from your torso and shoulders.

Your arm is of order 10X less powerful than your legs/torso. Stop throwing with your arm! Your arm is only useful for positioning and gripping, other than that, it is purely passive. Your arm needs to be turned into a whip that is driven by the powerful motion of your legs/hips/torso/shoulders.

Here's an exercise I might suggest:

Stand still with your arms at your side, completely relaxed. Turn your hips and torso back slowly and then rotate your hips quickly to the open position. Your arms should be whipped out and around in a windmill motion, without you using a single muscle in your arms. That's the feeling you should be aiming for.

Next do the same thing, except extend your throwing elbow out sideways from your body and hold it there (as if you put a vice around your shoulder). Allow your lower throwing arm and hand to hang limp from your elbow. Do it as if your arm were asleep and some mechanical device was locked onto your shoulder to keep the elbow pointed out side ways from your torso. Don't allow your elbow to move forward or backward, nor up nor down. It is completely locked in place, as if you no longer even had a shoulder joint and your upper arm were fused into your shoulder so that it would always point out sideways.

Now slowly turn your hips and torso back, and turn them abruptly open again. Don't use a single muscle in your arm! Now you should find that you've turned your arm into a whip. Your lower arm should be whipping forward super-fast. In fact, you can whip your lower arm forward way faster in this manner than your arm muscles could ever dream of doing. Your arm muscle strength decreases rapidly as speed increases, so they are useless anyways...trying to use them will only slow down this motion. You'll find that whipping your lower arm forward in this manner, with the elbow "stopped," will feel relatively effortless in comparison to trying to throw with your arm as you've probably been doing before.

Practice getting this feeling for a while. (Later you can work on the grip and positioning in finer detail, but for now focus on using your legs/hips/torso/shoulders as the powerful motor for whipping your arm forward.)


I wanted to chime in for a minute. JHern is dead on the money for my throwing problems, and it's taken me an entire year to finally understand what he's saying here. Sure, I've read it a few times. Heck, we all probably have. But at least in my case, I never understood this post because I never took the time to actually do it. All I did was imagine myself doing it, but visualizing and doing are two completely different things. If you've never done something, you'll never be able to visualize or imagine yourself doing it properly, so you'll never train your mind to know that "feeling" when you do get it right. So if you're like me, stop visualizing and DO this.

Hot damn, now I need to get to the practice field.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby Monocacy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:55 pm

Still making slow progress – I threw > 300’ with my fairway drivers several times today. The key seems to be opening my hips, which unblocks the lower body, and following through hard.

JR, it does feel like I have taken the hand brake off (or at least loosened it up a few clicks).

The downside is that my usually reliable approach game has gone to hell (temporarily, I hope). I keep overthrowing putter approaches by 50’ or namby-arming approaches because I’m worried about throwing 50’ past the basket.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby JR » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:00 am

Everyone goes through an adjustment period when they gain additional distance. Some approach practice seems appropriate then or trying out slower and/or less gliding putters to reduce the chances of long blow bys. While i'm always in favor of more skills over more equipment there are advantages to finite distance discs in distance control and being calm. Which helps reduce mental mistakes.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby ChainCrazy » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:50 pm

I also have to say THANK YOU!!! Just read your post last week and I have had some real good breakthrough disc golf. I ashamed to say that I TEACH this concept to my son and his teammates in baseball and have been strong-arming my drives for the past 3-4 months.

Thanks again JR...I will work hard on improving my form and using my lower body.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:32 am

A baseball throw at hip height is about the same as a sidearm drive in disc golf. Because physics stays the same things are the same FH and BH said Dave Feldberg in his clinic. There is a but and it is anatomy which is not the same between the throws. Disc golf steals a lot from other sports with movements. The x step is a mirror image of that of javelin throwers and foot pivot is not that far off of a discus throw except bh it is mirrored. Snapping of the wrist happens in racquet ball, weight shift and so forth. Much of the movements are dictated by human anatomy thus the movements are similar in many sports.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby ChainCrazy » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:46 am

Quick update JR ....last night with about 2-3 hours of field work I had another "aha" moment based on your lesson. Don't pull on the reach back. Kinetic chaining of the different parts. I would very deliberately slow my motions and concentrate on the x step and hip pivot with no arm movement until my front hip began to clear and square up....then snap the shoulder and arm through the hit. My son and I have been only playing for about 10-11 months now but I was trying to show/explain what your lessons mean. I can strong arm a disc to about 300-325'.
Last night I had many drives reach 400+ - flat ground - no wind!! My son crushed several over 350' and we both felt it was almost EFFORTLESS. Thank you again for the tips. We have many players in our local club give advice and try to teach but your explanations have really helped.

Off to AM Worlds this Friday - I hope we can incorporate what we have learned into our game quickly!! Long courses and big wind.

Thank again ~ blue skies
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:11 pm

It is a good opportunity to watch competent players so look for similarities in details of throwing technique among good players and see if you can mimic them.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby ChainCrazy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:54 pm

Well great event at World's last week. Well run, incredible competition and I made some great friends. I saw an huge amount diversity in driving techniques. I also seem to have forgotten what I was beginning to pick up right before we left. My driving all week was barely adequate and I was strong-arming most of my throws again. I will begin a new set of field work exercises to try and apply what you are saying.
I've developed some bad habits and will take time to change them. When the pressure was on, 20-30mph winds and tight fairways, I defaulted to my old throw.

Push off the back leg, rotate the hips open, don't pull from the reach back - wait until the front hip clears then snap.
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Re: Maxing out @ 300ft...

Postby ballardthedome » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:00 am

I've only been playing for a couple months, but after I ran across this thread earlier this week, realized that I was strong arming on my throws (about 250ft was as far as I could throw).

Went and did a little field work last night, starting with the right pec drill. Then played a round with some friends and only drove with my Roc3, just concentrating on throwing it straight and making sure I was using my body. I was rewarded with a few drives that were by far the farthest I had ever thrown that Roc.

Just wanted to say thanks to JHern & everyone that contributed to this thread! So glad I found this now before I had years of strong arming habits to break. :lol:

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