Best line shaping type disc?

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Best line shaping type disc?

Postby jwb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:48 pm

Would it be neutral to slightly understable type disc, or a neutral to slightly overstable? Other? Thanks.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby JR » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:14 am

What is best for you depends on your preferences, the courses you play and the winds at least. Surface tackiness is great to have in the rain or cold or when the moisture from the ground transfers onto the disc. One requirement for a line shaper is that it has a low enough power requirement so that you can throw it with 80 % power and have it fly left, center or right. Nose angle insensitivity helps in keeping the disc annied. So the answer for you could be many discs depending on your power and the amount of spin you put on the disc and the perfect tackiness means that even if a mold would be right in one plastic it may have a different stability in the tackiness you prefer. So it is not easy to say for sure what is the disc you should try. The neighboring discs play a part too.

Normally i'd go with a straight or slightly understable mold. Star Leopard is the most versatile of that mold because at least mine is more overstable than the others not flipping at full power and at that otherwise low fade that is late a slight anny release means that it will fade or flex to flat or hold the anny depending on the angle. those small angle changes are easiest to get with a flat throw with the disc oriented in different intended release angles in the grip.

Since the Leo is not exactly a wind disc even in Star there are plenty of different kinds of Eagles for even headwind managing.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby Mark Ellis » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:06 am

JR wrote:What is best for you depends on your preferences, the courses you play and the winds at least. Surface tackiness is great to have in the rain or cold or when the moisture from the ground transfers onto the disc. One requirement for a line shaper is that it has a low enough power requirement so that you can throw it with 80 % power and have it fly left, center or right. Nose angle insensitivity helps in keeping the disc annied. So the answer for you could be many discs depending on your power and the amount of spin you put on the disc and the perfect tackiness means that even if a mold would be right in one plastic it may have a different stability in the tackiness you prefer. So it is not easy to say for sure what is the disc you should try. The neighboring discs play a part too.

Normally i'd go with a straight or slightly understable mold. Star Leopard is the most versatile of that mold because at least mine is more overstable than the others not flipping at full power and at that otherwise low fade that is late a slight anny release means that it will fade or flex to flat or hold the anny depending on the angle. those small angle changes are easiest to get with a flat throw with the disc oriented in different intended release angles in the grip.

Since the Leo is not exactly a wind disc even in Star there are plenty of different kinds of Eagles for even headwind managing.


Nice job, JR. Well said.

Some version of neutral (aka, straight, stable) works well IF YOU can throw flat and straight. If not then you are screwed on tight tunnels no matter how many fancy discs you have to choose from. Once you can throw straight (the hardest line to learn) bending either way is relatively easy since you can throw straight and use an under or overstable disc to get the turn you need.

If you can't throw flat and straight then you have a natural hyzer release (which most of us started with backhand) or natural anhyzer release (more common on forehanders than backhanders). In either case your form dictates the line your disc flies, not the way the tunnel bends. If you can't make your drive fly dead-nuts flat, straight and in the correct direction for the first 50 feet then tunnels will be painful for you.

The most precise line shaping comes with tunnels, so not just bending around a single tree but having to hit a line which has obstacles to the right and left and must also be the correct height and speed. The tighter the tunnel the greater the precision required. The start, finish and distance of the tunnel controls which disc I choose.

The first gap in a tunnel is critical. Hit the first tree and get out your abacus to add up your score. So look at the first gap and decide how the disc needs to be flying at the center of that gap. Visualize exactly how you want your disc to fly, every bend, the finish and the landing zone. But the first gap is your target. Miss that target and your only friend is luck.

We can all dream about hitting the perfect line on a long tight tunnel and cashing the miracle deuce. But if you can just hit the first gap clean your chance of getting a par skyrockets, which still picks up a stroke (or more) on the field. The disc and line which gives you the best chance of hitting the first gap is what you want. Imagine your drive only goes 200 feet but sits in the middle of the fairway. How good is this? Freakin superb. Ask the guy who hit the first tree.

This last weekend I played a doubles tournament on a tunnel course. My partner and I missed the early trees. So when our opponents were scrambling for pars we were putting for birdies. Victory beer tastes good.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby jwb » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:35 pm

Thanks for the response. I have no trouble throwing flat. I am really trying to figure out if I should bag a under stable disc. Since I throw lhbh/rhbh, I don't throw a too many annys, usually just throw lefty hyzer. The throw I have trouble with is dead straight, with little to no fade. I think for that throw I will carry a hyzer flipping disc. Otherwise, I will probably just stick to what I like, slightly overstable.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby PMantle » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:02 pm

A line I struggle with. I've only made 1 birdie there, and it was with a Ch Leo,

Image
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby ferretdance03 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:23 pm

Looks like Darkside, hole 1 (or 10, it's been a while)- tough line for sure. I throw a Comet and plan for a three. A look at a birdie putt is a bonus there.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby Mark Ellis » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:37 am

jwb wrote:Thanks for the response. I have no trouble throwing flat. I am really trying to figure out if I should bag a under stable disc. Since I throw lhbh/rhbh, I don't throw a too many annys, usually just throw lefty hyzer. The throw I have trouble with is dead straight, with little to no fade. I think for that throw I will carry a hyzer flipping disc. Otherwise, I will probably just stick to what I like, slightly overstable.


Let me pull two lines out from your response: "I have no trouble throwing flat." "The throw I have trouble with is dead straight, with little to no fade."

If you really can throw flat, then a disc which is dead stable for you WILL fly straight. Maybe you are not throwing as flat as you think you are. I understand the attraction of throwing with a hyzer every chance you get (rhbh and lhbh) but your next goal needs to be learning the straight shot (and with it the gentle anny as it is the same shot with a slightly less stable disc).

Absolutely you should experiment with different discs to find some that are closest to neutral for you. Many good players throw tight tunnels with slightly understable discs on a hyzer-flip-up line. At different distances and speeds the same disc will gently hyzer (shorter, slower throws) or go straight (medium distances and speeds) or gently flip into an anhyzer (farther, harder throws).

For tunnels there is no shortcut for practicing and learning your individual discs at particular distances. I will throw a different disc on a tunnel which is 200 feet, versus the same shaped tunnel which is 240 feet. Or even with minor changes in wind.

My preference for short tunnels is Buzzzes as they fly flat and straight so willingly. I carry 4 in different stabilities and have memorized them at different speeds and angles. I grudgingly will disc up to a driver for a longer tunnel or greater wind or a more severe bend. Again, most of my driver tunnel shots happen with a driver very close to dead stable for me (Rogue or Flash or beat up Crush).

As many of you know the terms overstable and understable are not useful in the abstract in picking a disc. A disc is understable or stable or overstable relative to the thrower and their release and power. So sure a Predator is more overstable than a Leopard. But a particular Predator may be crazy overstable in one player's hands (low power and arm speed) and dead stable in other's (big power and fast arm speed). So in picking a disc for a particular duty, how it flies for someone else may not tell you how it flies for you.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby pask2155 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:46 am

I used to struggle big time in tunnel shots. But I have found hyzer flipping a more understable disc is the ticket. So for my I use a stable putter or a buzz and hyzer flip it. They flip up flat and will ride that line dead nuts straight. It is awesome!

So for me I have given up on perfectly flat shots. It's so much easier to come under it a bit and hyzer flip a disc. Hopefully that helps. I know it took many strokes off my game.
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby PMantle » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:51 am

ferretdance03 wrote:Looks like Darkside, hole 1 (or 10, it's been a while)- tough line for sure. I throw a Comet and plan for a three. A look at a birdie putt is a bonus there.

See that forked tree(it's really two trees) in the middle? My only birdie came from a throw that split the fork and missed the left side by an inch or less. It would not bother me greatly if some mysterious storm came through one day, and that tree was on the ground. :mrgreen:
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Re: Best line shaping type disc?

Postby jwb » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:18 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:
jwb wrote:Thanks for the response. I have no trouble throwing flat. I am really trying to figure out if I should bag a under stable disc. Since I throw lhbh/rhbh, I don't throw a too many annys, usually just throw lefty hyzer. The throw I have trouble with is dead straight, with little to no fade. I think for that throw I will carry a hyzer flipping disc. Otherwise, I will probably just stick to what I like, slightly overstable.


Let me pull two lines out from your response: "I have no trouble throwing flat." "The throw I have trouble with is dead straight, with little to no fade."

If you really can throw flat, then a disc which is dead stable for you WILL fly straight. Maybe you are not throwing as flat as you think you are. I understand the attraction of throwing with a hyzer every chance you get (rhbh and lhbh) but your next goal needs to be learning the straight shot (and with it the gentle anny as it is the same shot with a slightly less stable disc).

Absolutely you should experiment with different discs to find some that are closest to neutral for you. Many good players throw tight tunnels with slightly understable discs on a hyzer-flip-up line. At different distances and speeds the same disc will gently hyzer (shorter, slower throws) or go straight (medium distances and speeds) or gently flip into an an hyzer (farther, harder throws).

I was thinking more of a straight shot with a small landing zone, where you cant fade out.
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