What would you like to see in a course review?

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What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:11 pm

So let's say you are traveling for business, vacation, you are a pro on tour, or any reason, and you want to check out the courses near by and see which ones are worth playing. Disc golf course review's website does a great job of having almost every course reviewed with pictures, par info, hole length and all the details you need. When looking at a course on DGCR it is very informational but looking at the pictures doesn't really show you the course completely and if you are going out of state for a tournament I think a video of the course would be the best way to really see the course and know if you want to play it.

So my question to all of you fellow disc golfers is, what would you rather use when looking up a course to see what it looks like?

1. Just DGCR's pictures and course information/reviews on their website
2. A fly through video of the course layout. Example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sVzKLEwk0g
3. A video of someone playing a normal round at the course which could be a terrible round or a good one.
4. A tournament video of a course if there is one available.
5. A course video with an entertaining twist featuring Aces and other good shots in the video. Example- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-4TFZ_T_3M
6. Or another option you can think of? like a written course review, video of someone walking the course and talking about each hole, etc.
7. Or a combination of two or more options. (DGCR will probably always be used in combination with a video or other option when looking up a course) I put it as a single option if you would rather just use DGCR when seeing a new course online and don't like watching videos or using other options.

Just thought it would be fun and interesting to see what other people think of this.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby JR » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:36 am

Fly throughs are long to watch so maybe quickening up the pace of the video from the tee to the center of the widest spot in a corner on the fairway when those exist and otherwise speeding up in a few seconds to well short of the green to show the landing area and hazards for those that don't have the D to reach the green. So that they can plan their drives and approaches accordingly and those that can reach the pin can see what is the widest and/or easiest route to the basket.

That in conjunction with the DGCR info. I see competition videos as different kind of entertainment than being on the course throwing. Something to do while recuperating between sessions :-)
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Prerube » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:55 pm

The DGCR set up with pictures and user reviews works for me, but a fly through would be a great bonus. A flythrough is not realistic for many courses. Either they are small and not worth the time to record or the canopy is so thick an overhead would not be the best and a player's eye view is better.

(Neighborhood, if you are on DGCR hit me up. I will be at the Birdie Bash in Parma at the end of March)
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:34 pm

Prerube wrote:A flythrough is not realistic for many courses. Either they are small and not worth the time to record or the canopy is so thick an overhead would not be the best and a player's eye view is better.


I should have explained a fly through better. It isn't an overhead camera shot so canopies and trees won't get in the way. It is done by putting the camera on a stabilizer and then walking with the camera at chest/head level from the tee pad down the fairway to the basket. You then speed the footage up and you get a floating effect like the camera is flying through the course.

JR wrote:Fly throughs are long to watch so maybe quickening up the pace of the video


Yes they are kind of long with out anything exciting going on in them, but if you were going to go play a tournament out of state or for recreation would watching a 8-10min fly through of the course be a pain or too long? Personally I would love to watch one before traveling far to play a course.

I think I should have thrown in entertainment into the original question/post. Not only do players want course details, and layout in a video, but entertainment would also make a video more enjoyable to watch. I'm a little disappointed that the course videos we make aren't getting a response. Not only do they show the holes well, but they show a player throwing each hole so then you can see how the hole is played. Not every player will throw each hole the same but most will and they can use that players throw to judge the hole. Then for entertainment the videos are full of birdies, aces and other entertaining shots.

Here is another course video example I really like. It is a pro shooting the course and it shows the tee sign before each hole and is filmed quite well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf_5Zn9wqAo
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby JR » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:43 am

You can see the course fine with a sped up video as long as it doesn't go overboard even with somebody playing in that video. At least if the round doesn't go well people get to see new stuff after the failures so it won't be boring and people will forget the mishaps fast so filming should not be as nerve wracking for the player being filmed.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:08 am

JR wrote:You can see the course fine with a sped up video as long as it doesn't go overboard even with somebody playing in that video. At least if the round doesn't go well people get to see new stuff after the failures so it won't be boring and people will forget the mishaps fast so filming should not be as nerve wracking for the player being filmed.


Not really sure what overboard would entail. If a 8-10min fly through of the course is too long of a video with no one playing the course I suppose one could consider that overboard. You can't really speed up a video with someone playing it that wouldn't look right at all.

I have had a few people say that they would like to see a course video with a normal round or bad round of disc golf because then you get to see more throws and how to get out of brush and other situations etc. The problem with this is it would extend a course video from 8-10min to 15-20 min because the disc golfers are taking so many extra throws to play the course. I would think that the majority of people would rather see aces, birdies, and good putts in a shorter video then someone taking pars, bogies and double bogies through out a long overboard 15-20min video. I was hoping to get more responses on this thread to really see what players want to see but haven't had enough response yet.

We usually just film the stores team members and it's not nerve wracking for them to do good shots because they are pretty decent. And it's a lot of fun for them and myself to try and get an ace on film or a birdie on a hole we don't normally get. The whole production is a ton of fun for us and trying to do each hole in our best ability is what makes it challenging to do and entertaining to watch I would hope. So many ace videos filmed with cell phones or junk cameras on youtube have thousands of views. I don't see how a video of someone just getting a birdie, par, or bogey on a hole would be worth watching at all unless it's some famous hole or disc golfer or some exception.

I'm sure some people have seen this, but Double Ace!!!! Gotta give these two guys props for probably taking hours if not days to make this happen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOOCbIxlmtQ
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Jerbob » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:10 am

I like the fly through video and also the pro playing the course video ideas. I'm sure the Bradley Williams video could be shorter if they cut out all the little warmup moves, picking up the bag, grabbing the putter out of the basket, if you're looking to cut the video time down.

I am looking for a video of a course to give me information and how someone would play the holes.

If I am looking for entertainment I'll cue up the videos of people throwing discs at bottles, lamps, and tv's cause that was awesome and good for the game!
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:51 pm

Jerbob wrote: If I am looking for entertainment I'll cue up the videos of people throwing discs at bottles, lamps, and tv's cause that was awesome and good for the game!


Ahaha really? I saw the ones of schustrick smashing tv's and objects. It was a good quick laugh but really wasnt something worth watching again. How' was it good for the game?
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Jerbob » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:44 pm

I mean it was sooo good for the game. My internet sarcasm is poor.

I think the production of your video is very good. I would rather see those same three or four guys playing the course straight up instead of trying to make awesome shots over and over if I'm trying to get a feel for the course. They look like they can make solid throws. You could just edit for time if necessary.

If I want to see video review of Texas A&M stadium I'm not going to be using this as my basis.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:09 am

Jerbob wrote:I mean it was sooo good for the game. My internet sarcasm is poor.


Makes sense now, I thought you might have been joking but wasn't sure.

Thanks for the input on the videos we make. I've had a few people locally tell us the same that they would rather see some normal rounds filmed. This weekend we are actually doing a normal round course video in Florida. Mostly because we won't have the time to film shots repeatedly and try and get aces and long putts in. Right now it's about 10-15% want normal rounds and the rest have said keep the videos the same. That's just out of people in our local dg scene and the few that have replied here. I was hoping with this thread I could really see what the majority would like to see. Since we are upgrading equipment this year and making many more videos I figured it would be good to see what types of videos people would rather watch.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby JR » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:09 pm

I'm not sure that any kinds of standards have been established in disc golf videos or course exhibitions so it could well be that the vast majority of audiences have no fixed ideas of how any kind of videos should be made. And if some do there might be others that are just as adamant in demanding different kind of videos. So far the largest variance in responses we've at Youtube channel lcgm8 have received has been about the style and content of commentary on the videos that have commentary. Our feeling is that the disc golf video viewing public has not become homogenic and set in the wants regarding the content and presentation of videos. Which is why we have experimented with different variations to provoke responses to see what the public wants.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby Neighborhood » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:40 pm

JR wrote:I'm not sure that any kinds of standards have been established in disc golf videos or course exhibitions so it could well be that the vast majority of audiences have no fixed ideas of how any kind of videos should be made. And if some do there might be others that are just as adamant in demanding different kind of videos. So far the largest variance in responses we've at Youtube channel lcgm8 have received has been about the style and content of commentary on the videos that have commentary. Our feeling is that the disc golf video viewing public has not become homogenic and set in the wants regarding the content and presentation of videos. Which is why we have experimented with different variations to provoke responses to see what the public wants.


Being new to this site I didn't know you are a part of lcgm8. You guys produce some nice videos, some of the best tournament videos I've seen. I haven't watched any others besides a few of the tournament ones. I agree with you that disc golfers don't know exactly what they want to see, mostly because there isn't a set standard on quality videos being made. This year we are going to do the same and experiment with many types of videos and see which ones get good responses. Thanks for the input!
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby JR » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:54 pm

It might help to ask for advice and input from the viewers on Youtube about different videos for pros and cons. It would help every videographer. It might not be a good thing that every team does videos the same way though. So far our responses have varied and not everyone likes how we do things even with some variety being put into the videos. So far our commentary has been geared toward people that know nothing of the sport and new players that want to develop as players. We have asked for top dogs to do commentary on a high level geared for experienced players but nothing beyond promises have materialized yet.

My filming can be seen on the channels mfranssila and hirsimaki too beside the major portion at lcgm8.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: What would you like to see in a course review?

Postby JHern » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:42 pm

I like fly-through videos and I am seeking to do some myself (with a gimbal rig). But, I also like great stills, great tournament play videos, and great hole maps (with topography, marked distances to different features in the fairway, etc.). It's a lot of work, but well worth the effort if you have a great course that you'd like to document.
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