Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

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Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby toddglee » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:52 am

Hey guys! I'm completely new to Disc Golf and I'm completely hooked. It is very humbling to start a sport like this from scratch as an adult but that for me makes it so rewarding to slowly see results and improvement. My putting has improved immensely. My drive on the other hand.. is emberassing. I have spent a good bit of time wandering around these forums and thought its time to bite the bullet and show my terrible form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P6JzlGI_oU

First disc is a 171 Champion Teebird
Second disc is a 172 SS Avenger Z

I am getting around 200ft - maybe 250. All my drives are consistently going hyzer, high, and bombing. I think I'm not getting the nose down, but I have tried different grips, to no avail. I even tried to throw anhyzer, which just flutters, levels then hyzer bombs. I really want my discs to glide a little.

When I reach back and pull through, I have no accuracy whatsoever, maybe I have to work up to that.

What do you guys think? I want to have good form the beginning.
Last edited by toddglee on Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just starting out

Postby keltik » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:34 pm

welcome to DGR and to disc golf!

as for your throws you follow through well and your foot work isn't terrible for an absolute beginner.

when you make it to the hit you are leaning backwards, looking up and thus throwing nose up. you are also just kinda slinging the disc.

read all of this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16139

and keep practicing.
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Re: Just starting out

Postby toddglee » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:14 pm

Thank you, you are right, now that I look at it frame by frame I see that I am kind of leaning back and looking up with my shoulders angled up, no wonder the disc is going high. I really appreciate your insight.

I have been going through that thread for a couple days now, its a lot to put into practice. I try to focus on one thing each day I throw, like grip and release one day, follow through the next, etc.
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Re: Just starting out

Postby keltik » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:48 pm

well the foundation for everything on here is the right pec drill.

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Re: Just starting out

Postby toddglee » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Ahh yes this is exactly what I need to work on. Thank you!
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Re: Just starting out

Postby JR » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:18 am

You should also keep the left leg on the ground longer. The knees, navel, shoulder line normal and nose point in the same direction. That costs you a ton of power and should be rectified first before reaching back farther by pointing the feet farther away from the target. For distance throwing don't be afraid to look far away from the target in the reach back. See how much the feet need to turn in order to maximize the reach back distance. That's for open areas. For shorter accuracy shots your reach back can be enough. Varying how far you reach back helps a lot in distance control.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just starting out

Postby toddglee » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:24 am

keltik: Wow. Just by correcting my head angle alone probably added 50 ft to my distance, but more importantly, I went from pop ups that hyzer out and bomb, to line drives that go straight, which is what I was after. By pulling my chin in and down, and kind of peering across my brow, really brought my weight forward at the release. So much so that my follow through was forward of the pad. I also practiced the right pec technique, and definitely feel the power there. I had several succesful throws that incoporated a full reach back bringing the disc tight to my chest.

JR: If I understand correctly, it sounds like my body is too rigid, too aligned through the throw, robbing me of the loaded spring power I would get if I twist and reach back, letting the hips initiate the throw. You are so right, when I watch the footage I totally see that. I will post another video here when I have some improvement that I am proud of you.

Thank you guys for your thoughtful insight.
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Re: Just starting out

Postby JR » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:19 pm

Aligned in most cases is what you need but in the case of not twisting back to the left in the reach back and to the right in the out motion is a great damper on power generation. Non springy at all so far. Otherwise aligning every motion to propel the disc forward in a straight line is mandatory. That requires some rigidity in the legs and the hip area especially but shoulder height left to right and wrist also can easily twist to mess up hyzers and nose up angles.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby toddglee » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:20 pm

OK, I've worked hard over the last 8 or so months, and I have learned a ton from this place, so Thank you all very much!
My distance and accuracy have greatly improved, but I'd like to get more out of my legs/lower body. Also would I benefit from raising my elbow/ pull through higher? Do I need to lean my torso over the disc more?

I have some nose angle accuracy problems, sometimes too high, sometimes too low. I'd like to get more consistent in that area.

Any critique would be greatly appreciated at this point. Thanks.

These are all 50% power shots, low hyzers.


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Re: Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby JR » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:44 pm

Not terrible at all for an accuracy throw but there is room for improvement. If you turn your back, back of the head and heels at the target in the x step you can reach much farther back and when you can throw without losing confidence, balance, timing and the ability to use the conscious mind to control the muscles to get a fast movement you should quickly see 10-20' increase in distance with more available later with practice. Your left knee stays bent indicating that you don't push with the left leg at all. That robs a lot of power. Pushing forward with the left leg will push you body forward dropping the front of the disc lower. Different arm pull heights can change the ability to keep the front of the disc down. People are built differently so it is hard to say if a lower or a higher arm pull height would give you more power. Good indicators for best pull height are distance, looseness of the muscles and the quickness of the snap. Improve in one and you've probably improved in all of them. So you should test different pull heights and distance is the easiest to measure.

You almost stopped in mid throw and that is taking the pause too far. The arm should move forward in the pause and there should be some slow residual movement forward of the torso from the plant step. You did not get the elbow in front of the rest of the body so that killed the snap alone. Never mind not twisting the hips or turning the shoulders as much as they could be utilized. The disc should get to the right pec area before the elbow starts to straighten.

Disc nose angle and apex height consistency training should be done with flat throws with non flipping discs. Drivers punish the most for nose up angle so they might be a good idea for that. Putters punish the most with low apex heights becoming too short with low apexes. Pushing the weight forward (you were ok here) with the left leg helps in creating consistency in eliminating staying weight back problems. Making a mock slow throw before the actual one allows you to feel and look at the straight line that the disc takes. You should watch the height of the reach back especially but also see that the height does not change in the mock pull. Then the real throw should mimick the mock pull feeling of the arm. Your wrist was not bent down at the ripping out of the disc from the hand moment which raises the front of the disc. A major problem. Some shots looked like the disc slipped out of your hand=less power and missing to the left which is more evident in a flat and anny throw than in a hyzer.

You were super relaxed in the arm. You did not really accelerate the arm by using the arm muscles much at all. It is not just a matter of getting proper timings and body positions like getting the elbow forward you also need to put a lot of oomph into the movements when you are going for distance. One thing that helps in getting the elbow forward before straightening the elbow is to stop the right leg in place for a while after the plant step hits the ground and the ball of the right foot is airborne. That bracing should last until you puch back with the right leg simultaneously with the left leg pushing forward. Then the right leg can relax some. Not too much to fall down :-)

Even more power is available from the legs by sacrificing accuracy and consistency theoretical top limits by doing a curving x step in a double pivot. Where the x step left leg pivots on the ball of the foot running from back right to the center of the tee and the plant step lands in the right front corner and pivots on the heel. Hyzer is controlled by arm swing plane and the leg work is way different to an accuracy throw detailed in my signature.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby toddglee » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:04 am

Thanks JR. This is just excellent, a lot to think about. Interesting what you say about the extended pause in my throw. It seems this would be the perfect time to extend my reach back even further right before the plant.

I will definitely make the push off with my left leg more deliberate. Probably not to the point of straightening the leg, but certainly more emphasis there.

I really appreciate all the time you took in this analysis. Your comments have really helped my game from the beginning.
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Re: Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby JR » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:42 pm

While exploring new forms you might wanna try the pivot hop step too. The faster you move the easier it is to use vs trying to keep the left leg on the ground with the x steps. Well for me anyway but i suspect it is the same for anyone. More reach back is something that everyone wanting distance needs to do so yeah it is probably a great time to do that now for you.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just starting out _UPDATE 8 months later

Postby Beetard » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:26 am

It's probably already been covered, but I noticed that you are dragging your left foot during the hit/follow-through.
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