Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby isobar » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:36 am

Wouldn't it work both ways though Mark? If the people who play their whole lives in high elevation have to go to a low elevation to play, they would have to relearn their entire bag too. I suppose it's only fair that they cycle the location so everyone gets screwed equally.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JHern » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:27 pm

Mark Ellis wrote:...I have given this topic considerable thought and have changed my mind on it. Jhern is right. If everyone who lives at altitude can figure it out then I should be able to as well. Next time I visit thin air I am going to bring ultraflippy discs along. Beyond the shock of everything flying differently my problem was the lack of discs flippy enough for the conditions. Are any paper plates PDGA legal?


Right on Mark!

isobar wrote:...I suppose it's only fair that they cycle the location so everyone gets screwed equally.


I prefer to think of it as having fun equally. Tahoe is such an incredible disc golf paradise, would be nice for the world to be able to enjoy it! It will also be incredible to see how far today's kids will be able to bomb up in the thinner air.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Dig It » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:25 pm

isobar wrote:Wouldn't it work both ways though Mark? If the people who play their whole lives in high elevation have to go to a low elevation to play, they would have to relearn their entire bag too. I suppose it's only fair that they cycle the location so everyone gets screwed equally.

Yes. And when I play a tournament out of state I have to do that very thing. I just thought that was part of the deal. Didn't know we could whine about it. :lol:

See you guys at the GBO! I'll be the one turning everything over and going OB long!
Darmok and Gilad at Tanagra. Shaka, when the walls fell.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:23 pm

I still think a Pro Worlds won't happen above 5000 feet any more for the same reason they won't require Super Class discs for a USDGC. If the events everyone has been playing (NTs & As) and the discs you've been using all year are not comparable to the Worlds site, it's not a fair competition representative of what players played to get there. It's a macro example of playing the prelim rounds of Worlds at sea level then playing the semis and finals at 7000 feet. The rounds that got you to the semis don't bear any resemblance to what you need to do for the semis and finals.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JHern » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:00 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:...The rounds that got you to the semis don't bear any resemblance to what you need to do for the semis and finals.


Couldn't disagree more...just take the discs they used in low altitude and by the time they're beat up they're perfect for higher altitude, it's like re-setting the button and they fly like new again.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:04 pm

It's only Pro Worlds I have a concern about, not any other event including Am Worlds. It will be interesting to see how the Board at the time a high altitude Pro Worlds is considered will see it since most I suspect will not have played Flagstaff.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JHern » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:12 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:It's only Pro Worlds I have a concern about, not any other event including Am Worlds. It will be interesting to see how the Board at the time a high altitude Pro Worlds is considered will see it since most I suspect will not have played Flagstaff.


The way I see it is that people will know up front what Worlds is going to be like, so they'll have time to prepare for it, at least mentally. It would be great to see how today's field of top pros adjusts and who will prevail. Youth is good for the physical exertion of hiking around some of the more extreme courses (Zephyr Cove is awesome!). On the other hand, making the adjustments to your throws and your bag favors age and experience. The elder age divisions can play Bijou, which is flat (27 holes), and the altitude favors the older slower discs that legends players like to throw. You see, when people start to think about it as if it is going to happen, they will become intrigued, and curious, and eventually eager and excited. And as you suggest probably a lot of the people who didn't experience Flagstaff will be especially keen to try a run at Tahoe. And anyways, Tahoe disc golf blows Flagstaff away, we shouldn't even be mentioning the two in the same paragraph, there is no comparison (apologies to Flagstaffians, but it's the truth). The courses at Tahoe are simply epic, and the ability for Tahoe to absorb and accommodate and entertain a large event is well-established (hosted Winter Olympics already, and they're bidding for Winter Olympics again).

Tahoe Pro Worlds could be the greatest event in the history of disc golf.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JHern » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:49 am

Going back to the original thread, I've been thinking about adding a feature to my disc flight simulators, that would show how one throw at a given altitude would fly at another altitude. Air density enters into the drag, lift, and torque, but it is straightforward to analyze since it is just a proportional change in these forces. I'll fiddle with it soon if I get a moment, it should be interesting to see what the physics says.
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby cubeofsoup » Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:09 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:The rounds that got you to the semis don't bear any resemblance to what you need to do for the semis and finals.


You run into the same issue if you had bad weather in prelims and pristine conditions for the finals. You don't invalidate a Worlds if it rains at some point. I understand the change in conditions is very drastic, but, shouldn't our World Champion show that he/she can be the best anywhere in the World?
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:25 am

It's not the same thing. Everyone has occasionally played in bad weather and everyone at Worlds would be on an equal basis for scrambling in those conditions. Most players have never played at a higher altitude where their discs act differently nor can they simulate that where they live to practice for the event.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JR » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:42 pm

And real world limitations mean that many flat landers cannot get to the site to practice far enough in advance to get acclimatized to the thin air and then adjusting for the shots. I don't know but i imagine that it is easier to acclimatize going down from the mountains to sea level than vice versa so going down means more days adjusting for flight differences.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby JHern » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:01 pm

Good discussions, I like to hear from Chuck even when I don't agree with him.

Anyways, I think PDGA might not have the luxury of saying no to a bid from Tahoe, time will tell...of course they could always have yet another Worlds in Indiana again, as an alternative to Tahoe (3X in a decade vs once in a lifetime).
Japan bag...
Drivers: Starlite Wraith (158g), Gummy Champion Leopard (150g), 1st Run Z-Talon (150g)
Mid-Range: Star Classic Roc (146g), R-Pro Roc (157g)
Putt/Approach: Legacy Protege Clozer (158g), Glow DX Aviar (150g)
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:33 pm

The IDGC/Augusta is now far enough along to be the backup Pro Worlds location at any time the Board either doesn't get a bid or is not satisfied with what they've received.
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby what'shisname » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:05 pm

Chuck Kennedy wrote:It's not the same thing. Everyone has occasionally played in bad weather and everyone at Worlds would be on an equal basis for scrambling in those conditions. Most players have never played at a higher altitude where their discs act differently nor can they simulate that where they live to practice for the event.

How is it that those who live at higher altitudes practice for the events held at sea level?
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Re: Δ in Altitude/Temp/Humidity Make Discs Fly _____ ?

Postby Chuck Kennedy » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:59 pm

Simply numbers. More players, courses and tournaments at elevations below 5000 feet. So if you want to practice, those lower elevation locations and events are significantly more accessible and frequent than the reverse. Similar reason we haven't had a Worlds in say Antartica or during winter, not enough opportunity to practice because you can't easily simulate the environment in a wide enough number of locations.
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