Form Critique

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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:28 pm

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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:56 am

Your follow through is high right and that's just nazi :-) For a perfect laser spin putt the arm should point at the target and with a rising arm putt the follow through should end up high on the vertical line of the target.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:29 pm

What adjustments should I make for anhyzer or hyzer? Today was the first day I've gotten a hyzer putt to move left. I was using a lot of wrist roll to do it. If I don't, they fly with hyzer angle but no movement. I didn't feel like my body was positioned right though. It felt like I was swooping the disc under my elbow and flinging it. Maintained height really well though.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:20 pm

The disc remained above the elbow all the time so it is not a problem.

What are you trying to achieve with the hyzer and the anhyzer angles in putting lateral movement? It happens on slower nose up higher apex throws. Lasers push straight despite the angle just as harder putter drives do for the first portion of the flight that can last the majority of the distance covered with the throw.

Some putt with the same side leg than the throwing arm forward i do it the other way round. No matter which way you use you can improve the power generation by separating the legs more back to front in relation to the release to basket line.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:46 pm

JR wrote:Comet turning at under 250' and not at 300' is something i've come across too. It seems to be all in the spin thus snap thus late acceleration for me. We have enough power to exceed the cruising speed of the Comet to make it turn if we don't give it good enough spin. Which is all too easy with an early acceleration and incomplete late acceleration which leads to a partially hampered disc pivot all too easily. But the main thing probably is too loose a grip leading to slips or micro slips that have the disc moving in the correct direction but with too early thumb separation from the disc before the disc pivot has completed fully. Reducing spin rate so that the speed overpowers the gyroscopic force and the disc flips anny. The solution is to start slower with the arm pull and create the needed power after the right pec position with a brisk to hard late acceleration and pinching well. It may also be helpful to move the thumb closer to the center of the disc to delay the thumb slipping away from the disc a little even though it will not pivot the disc optimally after the thumb has started slipping. It will still help a little. Loosey goosey with the Comet is is a punishing disc.

Wrist rolls are all too common and the cure is to tighten up the muscles around the wrist some at around the starting point of the elbow chop. How tight and when depends on your muscle power and acceleration ability. So only you can tell which version gives the best distance and only by experimenting.


I tried pinning my elbow more, but I'm spinning out pretty bad. I didn't have many throws off-line, but it seems like I should from all the spinning. I can work on the spinning out, but before I do I'd like to know if pinning the elbow is a worthwhile endeavor?

I tried releasing more one line today; it was a total failure. I felt I was stopping the motion; feeling was supported by almost none going in. Does this mean I need to pull on a different line? Hopefully I'll have more success in the future.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:02 pm

JR wrote:The disc remained above the elbow all the time so it is not a problem.


I was talking about my putts with hyzer movement, which I don't have film of yet.

JR wrote:What are you trying to achieve with the hyzer and the anhyzer angles in putting lateral movement? It happens on slower nose up higher apex throws. Lasers push straight despite the angle just as harder putter drives do for the first portion of the flight that can last the majority of the distance covered with the throw.

Some putt with the same side leg than the throwing arm forward i do it the other way round. No matter which way you use you can improve the power generation by separating the legs more back to front in relation to the release to basket line.


I was throwing just as much of a laser, but with the wrist roll I could get the movement. Same as with putter drives, you can get it to slide left before flipping to the right. Anhyzers weren't moving like hyzers, but I find it generally harder to control roll over as opposed to under.

I'll get a vid soon. Hopefully it comes out well.

What am I trying to achieve? Another shot to my arsenal? I don't know ... it just seems useful. Putt around trees I guess. I'm thinking this isn't a typically recommended shot to attempt?
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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:53 am

I am not totally sure of what you mean by pinning the elbow. Do you mean stopping the elbow? Or tightening the muscles in the elbow area to avoid wrist rolls? If the latter the elbow area is too high the work needs to be done in the muscles from just under the wrist to two thirds of the way up to the elbow.

In putting the different angles play a part in going round obstacles and countering huge side winds that push the discs sideways mid flight and learning different lines to limit blow by distance of missed putts. So learning to throw flat and hyzered and anhyzered shots are all valuable skills especially in the wind. Where you'll quickly notice the need to make adjustments in aiming and angles. Generally hyzer flat and nose and rear of the disc equally high flat shots are the least pushed around by the wind putts.

In driving hyzers are naturally rising throws with many forms and annies rise then drop before the rip. So if you are not trying to pull the arm in a straight line with hyzered and annied throws it is not so much of a problem as it would be with a flat shot for maximum accuracy and consistency. And that is possible to work around much of the time in good conditions with practice so adopting a style has a learning curve steepness and maximum potential consideration to make in which style to try to train decision.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:51 pm



My upshots are feeling a lot better. I'm not sure what I changed though. It just feels like I'm doing less, not really going slower or softer or anything.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:48 am

Your arm looked loose which adds speed. Toward the end with the harder drives you were able to keep the left leg on the ground until the disc left. Nice. in the harder one steps with the left arm hockey slap stick movement the core was too loose and that lead the the posture tilting sideways from the hips. It looked like you jammed the right leg until the hit and that is probably bracing too long because it might make the heel pivot too late to add all the possible power. The good thing about it is that most people have trouble bracing at all or long enough. You have the muscle power to do it. Testing if loosening up the right leg at some point adds distance should be done to polish the throws. Not bad at all.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:57 pm

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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:38 am

Oww my ears!!! I turned of the volume immediately :-) The lefty throws were braced well to too long avoiding pivoting altogether because too much of the sole was on the ground. The ball of the foot should be up. The righty spun out pivoting immediately upon landing not bracing at all. You did get the hips moving in the lefty throws but am i correct in assuming that most/all of it was from the bracing of the left leg automatically moving the torso? Without active twisting to the left with the core muscles? The movement range was almost there but someone as lean as you should be able to twist faster. That adds power. Lefty follow throughs varied with power and the amount that the foot was flat so you have inconsistency in power generation, timing and sideways accuracy as a result. Or at least more things to manipulate late in the throw to counter those issues. I'm not sure that lefty planting so right is a good idea at those speeds especially because it is harder to clear the hips. Meaning turning to face the target at the rip and taking a follow through step so that the right side faces the target.

I liked the looseness and now that you know how it feels to be loose and smooth you can try to sharpen up the movements to become more explosively accelerating in the last 10-14" of the arm swing. Since your muscle usage is great for approaches the only thing to improve is to gain more distance.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:06 pm

You are correct. Right now, everything but my legs are completely loose (as far as what I feel). I'm having several problems left-handed. I believe that my shoulder is not hinging correctly, and when I try to put active power into anything but the legs, it cuts my D in half or so. Feels like a classic strong-arm, but I don't get any elbow chop, and I'm not sure I even get my elbow forward.
I really need to work my left pec drills, but it feels sooooo much worse than that it's hard to spend time on. Should be easier after I get a net up and don't have to walk to get discs.
I probably am too closed. I think I probably close off a little too much in all my dg throws, because relative to other sports, dg happens from a very closed stance. It looks like I am getting my hips clear, even with such a stance, and my right side seems to get around even when I'm not pivoting. My understanding is that I don't need to pivot, except to prevent injury; so if a pivot isn't happening, it's just because I'm not using enough force to injure myself, but I'm not using my legs exactly right in my right or left handed throws ... I'm thinking maybe I close so far to get more hip action?
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:07 pm

btw

Thank you, and sorry about your ears. My roommate doesn't let me have any volume on my computer, so I never know what audio is going on.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby JR » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:38 am

How closed gets the most distance for you needs to be tested after you start to pivot. You can cause micro fractures to many places that manifest themselves later by not pivoting. Furthermore not pivoting means that you don't shift enough body weight cutting power generation. It also lessens acceleration because the distance the disc is accelerated and the rate of the acceleration of the acceleration toward the end of the throw drops with lesser movement range. Which is the result of not following through far.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Form Critique

Postby Dan-O » Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:02 pm

I've been doing quite a bit of work. What do you think?







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