Backhand Drives

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Backhand Drives

Postby MrNike » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:42 am

Hola,

i just started out last year in summer and i really love the game. I am looking for some advice on my backhand drive. I think i know a few problems, but i would like to get some critique from better players.
Yesterday was the first warm day here and i made a video with a few throws caputred in 3 different camera angels.

Everytime I threw 4 discs in the same order. Buzz (green), Glide (yellow), Xpress (orange) and Sidewinder (blue).
8 throws from the side, 8 from behind and 4 filmed from front.



The midranges fly around 250feet and the drivers around 280-300feet.

Problems i spotted:

- missing dynamic
- balance
- oat (good to see from behind), not sure about this one but it looks odd. I feel like i am pulling straight while throwing

Any constructive critque is wanted ;)

Greetings,
MrNike
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby seabas22 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:57 am

Need to lead/drive the elbow down the line past the shoulder. Your hugging reachback hinders the elbow lead and your body is in the way of the elbow going straight, so it rounds around the body instead. Also stay off the rear heel/push from the instep of the foot and get more athletic with bending knees and get your body over the disc.
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby JR » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:11 pm

Welcome.

Safety first. Your right leg is planted with the whole sole stopping the leg from pivoting on the heel with the ball of the foot up in the air. It leads to rounding reduces power and worst of all strains the body to the point of breaking over time. It has got to change or you walking days might be over in the rare worst case scenario. Severe injury is a very real threat.

You should push the wrist down until the disc has left and that requires a lot of muscle power.

You started the arm pull at a high speed. Starting slower allows the elbow to lead the throw more easily and the late acceleration of the snap gets much stronger. In physics force= mass times acceleration so acceleration is needed but so is speed which can be gained by accelerating hard enough early enough. It is individual how fast the nerves and the muscles work so you need to experiment with when and how quickly to start the arm acceleration at full tilt. some more muscular than you guys here throwing well past 500' and with wind 600'+ say their best distance comes from pulling the arm at full speed from when the final step touches the ground. If it is an accurate description of the situation they probably accelerate until the end but not everyone is that athletic.

You should try to stop the right leg for a short time when the heel is on the ground and the ball of the foot is up in order to allow the elbow to move ahead of the body and launching the passive part of the hips twisting to the right. Which should be augmented by actively using the muscles to add to that speed. The shoulders too should turn even farther right and the arm should be swung even more right from the shoulder socket.

You are correct about the arm plane dropping in the follow through vs the plane before the rip. Turning the thumb down rotating counter clock wise quickly just after the disc has left pushes the shoulder blade backwards allowing it to move over the back muscles lengthening the arm follow through low resistance part. Which makes a world of difference for the arm plane maintenance.

I'd try to push quicker not stronger (as the command leaving the brain) with the left leg.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby MrNike » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:28 pm

Thanks for the quick replies and great advice :)

JR wrote:Safety first. Your right leg is planted with the whole sole stopping the leg from pivoting on the heel with the ball of the foot up in the air. It leads to rounding reduces power and worst of all strains the body to the point of breaking over time. It has got to change or you walking days might be over in the rare worst case scenario. Severe injury is a very real threat.


After i rewatched i see what you mean.
Is it safe enough to land flat and then raise the ball to rotate on the heel ? Or would it be best for optimal power translation to land on the ball and transfer to a heel rotation like this guy:


JR wrote:You should push the wrist down until the disc has left and that requires a lot of muscle power.

This should happen at the last second before the rip and after the stopping of the wirst. Correct ?

Thanks in advance :)

Greetings,
MrNike
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby JR » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:41 am

Actually that guy landed on the left side of his toe rolling on the shoe bottom the side corner to the heel before lifting the ball of the foot up. That is a classic example of the proper weight shift of the foot. He also stops the foot direction change for a while in order to get the hips moving and the elbow forward.

I have a busted arm and struggle to get consistent wrist down angle so my results have been mixed. I've tried to push the wrist down before i take the first step and it stiffens the arm muscles and slows down the arm more than it helps in bringing the front of the disc down. I get the front and rear of the disc level easily so maxing out my arm speed gives me the best distance. There is a problem in this method in the wrist bones pushing the hand thus the wrist up as the hand moves from bent back to the left of neutral to neutral. I have tried to keep the wrist level and push it down as late as possible too and it is susceptible to missing so the rest of the grip and form need to ensure that you get at least a front and rear of the disc level release even without the wrist being down so that you only mess up. Not mess up nose up high stall catastrophically. How late you can push the wrist down depends on how fast and strong you can drop the wrist consistently. The later the better but not so late that you don't get the intended wrist angle. So you need to try out the timing. An advantage to a late wrist dropping beside keeping the arm muscles loose and as fast as possible when it counts early in the arm pull is that when the bones start to restrict the wrist down angle the hand and wrist already have a downward momentum. Thus you have more force in the wrist downward movement than you could have starting from a non moving hand at the same time point in the throw.

There is a technique for wrist snap called the hyper spin. Check out Discraft video More Distance Now where Marty Peters shows how the wrist never bends back left of neutral but stays at neutral and snaps to the right of neutral. It needs moving of the wrist to right of neutral with active commands from the conscious part of the mind for best results.

I'm not sure if you can wait pushing down the writ until the wrist is stopped. The disc pivots and rips so quickly that there's hardly time for pushing the wrist down so late. It would be awesome if somebody could do it so late consistently. The starting point of the wrist push down in the late pushing down version should probably start around the elbow unbending start or a little later. It takes a while for the conscious commands to travel from the brain to the arm during which time the arm moves. So mileage varies between 40 and 70+ MPH throwers.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby MrNike » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Thanks JR. Now i have many pointers to work on. I ll report back after a few field practices.
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Re: Backhand Drives

Postby JR » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:22 am

There are many things to try and some of it is advanced stuff that many need months to get working even in a rudimentary way so keep on hitting a practice field to get quick repetitions and lots of them and have fun. Things aren't easy but advancing is more rewarding once you do.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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