Westside Stag

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Westside Stag

Postby kern9787 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:32 pm

Has anybody else picked any of these up yet? I got a couple in today (175 opto; 172 GL) and have only been able to get a couple tosses in with them. Off the bat, they don't seem as overstable as I expected, but I'll get quite a bit more time in with them tomorrow.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby rusch_bag » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:18 am

I got a couple and haven't thrown them yet. I have heard they are not what I expected them to be so my desire to throw them has been small.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby kern9787 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:59 am

So... fuck the stag.

Let me preface this by saying that I've spent most of my time as a disc golfer with one or more fo the following in my bag: roc, teebird, or PD. In fact, I don't there has been a time in the last 4 or 5 years that there hasn't been at least one of those discs.

Why does this matter? Because when I see flight numbers for a disc of 0 Turn and 3 Fade, you should understand to an extent what type of flight I'm expecting out of a disc. Yes, I understand, different manufacturer, different standard for flight ratings. I'm not expecting a firebird or predator type of wind fighting disc, but it should be a good all around disc that can hold up to wind relatively well. I don't by any means feel this is unreasonable.

What it seems I got instead was a disc with significant turn and really not much fade at all. Let me clarify significant turn. With a tailwind (its been around 10 mph in Abilene today), I was able to throw the disc on a slight hyzer, perhaps 10 degrees, and have the disc flip a bit past flat, track to the right (RHBH) then fade slightly. This was on a less than full power shot and put it out around the 370' range. This held true for both stags (176 opto and 172 GL). In addition, I was throwing a new Saint (175 opto) along side them, which turned less and fade about the same.

On a side note, since I mentioned the Saint... How does Latitude 64 pull of describing their "overstable control driver" as a longer River? Don't get me wrong, I was expecting the Saint to turn a bit and fade a bit, making it a very straight disc (and not a wind disc by any means). And honestly, I can see a faster River comparison. But it is in no way, shape, or form "overstable." /siderant

When thrown into a headwind (same ~10 mph) the disc was relatively useless. Unless I gave it a lot of height, there was just too much turn to be useful. And at that height into a headwind, the disc wasn't useful anyways.

I'm kinda concerned they might have given me Underworlds with Stag stamps. Its that bad.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby bsnone1 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:42 pm

I've had similar experiences with the Saint - not at all what I expected when I got the disc. I did however, pick it up in Opto-Air so that may be part of my issues with the disc but it certainly isn't something that fights wind well (at least for me and my beginnerish self)

Glad to hear a little feedback on the stag before I go grab one myself. I guess for me, for stable/overstable fairways it's tough to beat innova/discraft. The MVP stuff didn't do too much for me nor did the other Lat 64 discs...
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby kern9787 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:30 pm

So I got a few more throws in with the Stags/Saint. Really similar stabilites, although I feel the Stag is still more touchy. I did get a few shots really dialed in with a tailwind though, putting all three in a grouping aroun 400'-415' on very straight hyzer flips. As I said, I think the Saint is more reliable, although it will take more time to really confirm that. Not awful discs by any means. But definitely not what you'd expect given the ratings, and definitely on the neutral/slightly understable side.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby keltik » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:59 pm

This is what I've been scared of since I did an A/B of the Saint & Escape. I think what has happened is that Lat took a page from the old Automotive "badge engineering" manual and they take one mold and put different names on it for different subsidiaries to sell. I think they've done this with the Villain/Giant, the Bolt/King, Sword/Trespass/Flow(maybe). I can't prove this because I don't have access to a CMM and don't have 3D models of the molds to compare against.

I don't blame them for this. It allows for products to be brought to market faster and to help the subsidiaries flesh out their lineups as well.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby bsnone1 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:10 pm

What did you think of the comparison between the escape and the saint? I played a dynamic discs event a few weeks ago and had to use the fusion escape and liked it considerably more than the saint... Could be that my saint is opto air?
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby JR » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:42 pm

The understability of the Stag is discouraging to hear. Of course at the power you were throwing it the demands for HSS go up considerably and Teebirds and PDs fly much better.

The Flow and the Sword are not the same disc. Isn't the Flow Wraith sized and the Sword Destroyer sized in the wing? So the Sword should have a mm wider wing and be one speed class faster.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby Varsi » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:30 am

JR wrote:The understability of the Stag is discouraging to hear. Of course at the power you were throwing it the demands for HSS go up considerably and Teebirds and PDs fly much better.

The Flow and the Sword are not the same disc. Isn't the Flow Wraith sized and the Sword Destroyer sized in the wing? So the Sword should have a mm wider wing and be one speed class faster.


Flow 175.1 21.1 1.8 1.2 16.8 2.2 5.7 27.75
Sword (Kalevan Miekka1) 176 21.2 1.8 1.2 16.8 2.2 5.7 28.75

1mm difference in diameter in specs. The wings on my Swords and Flow do seem pretty much identical. Sword has been way more reliable for me tho.
Even tho the height is the same in specs my Flow does have way higher dome than my Swords.


Oh and I didn't really like Stag that much either. It's not a bad disc but not quite what I was expecting.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby keltik » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:14 am

for the Saint/Escape I compared Opto to FR Lucid. They flew pretty much the same. The Escape did have a tick of extra LSS but nothing really to write home about. I should probably do a "shootout" with the Saint, Escape, Stag, OLF, Avenger and PD.

and about the Flow/Sword yes they do fly differently. and I said I don't have access to the mold models or a CMM to verify any of this. They could be doing minor tweaks to the mold to make different things. Rim thickness is the same for both though. I have heard that the GL Flows are much less stable than Optos
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby JR » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:33 am

At least early blue GLs were flatter lower PLH and very flippy compared to the great high dome & PLH Opto Flows. That compete favorably against Wraith and fade just more than S TDs thus obviously more than the Beast.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby bsnone1 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:13 pm

keltik wrote:for the Saint/Escape I compared Opto to FR Lucid. They flew pretty much the same. The Escape did have a tick of extra LSS but nothing really to write home about. I should probably do a "shootout" with the Saint, Escape, Stag, OLF, Avenger and PD.


I'd be curious as to what you come up with. I have nearly all of those discs in my ever growing collection, just trying to find what works best for me right now. Nothing with a rim larger than 1.9 feels good in my hand so I'm really trying to max distance / find best lines with several of the above. I just got my C-PD yesterday and can't wait to get a chance to throw it in the field either tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby kern9787 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:38 pm

I'd put the saint/stag in the same category as Orc or QOLS, rather than comparing to an Avenger, OLF, or PD.
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby turso » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:40 pm

I've thrown one Stag so far, GL, one throw. Let it rip, turned and burned from flat release in under 300'. Not impressed, but not making any final judgements by just one throw, although I've been hearing lots of the same from all over...
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Re: Westside Stag

Postby JR » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:22 pm

bsnone1 wrote:
keltik wrote:for the Saint/Escape I compared Opto to FR Lucid. They flew pretty much the same. The Escape did have a tick of extra LSS but nothing really to write home about. I should probably do a "shootout" with the Saint, Escape, Stag, OLF, Avenger and PD.


I'd be curious as to what you come up with. I have nearly all of those discs in my ever growing collection, just trying to find what works best for me right now. Nothing with a rim larger than 1.9 feels good in my hand so I'm really trying to max distance / find best lines with several of the above. I just got my C-PD yesterday and can't wait to get a chance to throw it in the field either tonight or tomorrow.


The PD is not a maximum distance driver. It will fade out too early for that.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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