Troubling Flick

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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:06 pm

discpunk26 wrote:The spirit is a good choice, but I would recommend one of the new 12x firebirds that are flat and stiff. the Nuke OS would be another good choice. In order to get the maximum distance you want you have you have to learn how to throw on a hyzer line and let the shot flip up and turn over a little. When throwing flat I have the same problem that you do with my max distance forehand. I actually like throwing a Legacy Rampage for my max distance forehand, that is even with a little hyzer. You should give a Pinnacle Rampage a try.


I think you are probably the first person that wasn't skeptical of the ability to throw a Flick over 350'. Also, thanks for the recommendations.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Flipflat wrote:Flick out to 400ft? Yeah right, post a vid.


Here you go, best I could do in the wind today. Read the video description for information. I have pictures of the actual measurements, but those don't really prove much seeing as I could have just walked around with the measure device. And if you are that skeptical, I doubt they would matter anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhlQWgf83E
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby kern9787 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:01 pm

Are you aware that you are throwing anhyzer?
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:28 am

Yeah. It was on purpose due to the crosswind. If I throw flat or hyzer it would carry the disc. I never said I could dramatically flip the disc, lol.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby JR » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:55 am

It could be the disc and it could be your form or both. Not knowing what your normal no wind line drive forehand looks like it is hard to tell if it is something in your technique. Are you aware of the arm dropping lower in the follow through will turn any disc? It should happen in anhyzers like you had now but not with flat shots and hyzers should raise on the same line the arm was moving on prior to the rip. Wrist rolls could be an issue too.

Not all Flicks are alike. I lost an original flat top Z Flick back in the day and got a slightly domey ESP Flick years later and the ESP does not seem to be as HSS and wind tolerant. Of course i had gained power in between too. I have not thrown post original Z Flicks but people here reported that the newer ones are not as flat and HSS. That ESP cannot handle all winds in the bowl of a practice field i often use with several streets lining it providing the sea breeze with several avenues of advancement from several directions. Gusts and swirls and changing wind directions all the time and faced with that 400' BH ESP Flick does flip a few degrees for me when the winds pick up from the front quarter. Sometimes in heavy side winds too.

Does the Flick forehand without flipping most of the time in calm weather?

Come on guys people have flicked all kinds of discs including understable ones well past 350'. I have not but maybe i could practice that shot now that i'm healing. Injured old me Beast record to 330' with a fluke when even 300' is rare. But i have worked out in the winter and getting in more reps might make the FH a more viable long throw for me in the summer. Sounds tempting...

I know of one flat land and one downhill 500' forehand videos on Youtube. The downhill one might be up because it was one USDGC distance showcase where Big Jerm became the first to FH over the lake. The other was a low quality one that didn't show the flight of the disc due to poor quality of Ville Piippo when he was in better health and could rip harder. He is a machine -Dave Feldberg at the European Open 2011 playing in the same card as Ville after a few FH bombs from Ville. IIRC Dave said Ville played two better on three holes sidearming at one point. Three consecutive holes but i'm not sure which holes so i cannot estimate if they were FH favoring holes. Still Ville is a known power sidearmer as well as the best tomahawk thrower at one point.

People have said that Scott Stokely has thrown sidearms to 200 meters and if so i agree about the comment of him being a mutant :-)
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby PMantle » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:19 am

I have limited experience, but I do play with two forehand guys. Neither one releases the way they think they do. When they think they are flat, they are still anhyzer. Neither one comes close to true hyzer when they are convinced they are. The harder they throw, the more off they are on how they think they released.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Mark Ellis » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:28 am

Trent2011 wrote:The Nuke/Nuke OS was what I was looking at. Currently, even throwing with hyzer on a Boss at full power, it will almost always turn on me and finish on a hard left. I know that the actual rotational speed of the disc has a lot to do with it's mid flight stability. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people I see throwing side arm don't really "flick" the disc quite as much as I do on power shots. If I try to flick it less, I do get extremely bad releases that wobble like crazy.


When you have good power but not good form the right disc will mask the symptoms but not cure the problem. From the video you posted (if the one shot we could see released was representative of how you typically throw) then you are not throwing flat. Oh btw, your description of discs flipping over proves you are not throwing flat. To reach your potential in both distance and control you must train yourself to be able to throw flat. When you throw flat you can vary your power without exacerbating flutter.

Forehands are much more difficult to control than backhands (smaller margin of error) so any flaw is exaggerated. In bad winds your only hope is to throw flat. So your primary goal should be to learn to throw flat. Perfectly dead nuts flat. Both your arm swing and your release angle needs to be flat. Which is possible with any disc in your bag with enough skill and practice.

For a big power arm you want to start with overstable discs, knowing that when you can control them you will to move to stable and then eventually understable discs too. I throw flippy putters forehand and control them.

My recommendation is to pick up a stack of discs to practice with. 3 Z Crushes, 3 Z Nukes and 3 Z Nukes OS's. All max weight. All different colors. Preferably from different runs. The Nukes will be hardest to control but eventually the discs you want for distance (once you learn to control them). The Crushes will likely be the easiest to control but give the least distance (and be the easiest to dial back for shorter shots).
The OS's will probably give you the best distance at first and should be able to handle all the power and flutter you will give them and not flip over.

Why different runs and colors? Because you want variance between the discs just like you need to vary shots on the course. The variances won't be great but as you develop control and learn the discs you will find how useful those variances are. Take them to the field on calm air days to learn the most and fastest. Don't worry about distances. Try to hit a line and throw flat.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby allsport1313 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:30 am

I don't think anyone is skeptical of a 400 foot sidearm. The conundrum for me lies in the idea that you need more disc than a Flick to get it done, while similar throwers seem to have no troubles with surges and destroyers and the like.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:41 am

To be honest, I may have over stated my problem here. I can throw the disc straight when I want, I just can't throw any long distance s-curves. If I put anhyzer on my max-power shots, they tend to stay left for a minimum of 250' and don't come back until the last third of the total distance or so. I'm basically looking for a disc that is nearly impossible to keep anhyzer even when thrown with decent power. I'm looking for something that I can throw anhyzer and it flip after 100' or so and finish hard right. Which a Flick does perfectly. At medium power. It sounds like I'm asking for something absolutely useless in a throw, but you would be surprised what lines you can come up with when you think outside the box.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Varsi » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:06 am

Trent2011 wrote:To be honest, I may have over stated my problem here. I can throw the disc straight when I want, I just can't throw any long distance s-curves. If I put anhyzer on my max-power shots, they tend to stay left for a minimum of 250' and don't come back until the last third of the total distance or so. I'm basically looking for a disc that is nearly impossible to keep anhyzer even when thrown with decent power. I'm looking for something that I can throw anhyzer and it flip after 100' or so and finish hard right. Which a Flick does perfectly. At medium power. It sounds like I'm asking for something absolutely useless in a throw, but you would be surprised what lines you can come up with when you think outside the box.


I assume XXX or a flat Firebird should do that. 1st run Prodiscus premium Respecti as well by those are probably impossible to find.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:10 am

Varsi wrote:I assume XXX or a flat Firebird should do that. 1st run Prodiscus premium Respecti as well by those are probably impossible to find.


I have seen the XXX and flat top Firebird mentioned the most. I don't know who makes the XXX or how to know if I'm getting a flat top Firebird. So any extra information on those two would be appreciated.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby rooneytunes » Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:24 am

XXX is made by Latitude 64. Get a flat opto. Flat top firebirds refer to a few runs that came out super flat. The current run of stiff flat champ firebirds are the ones that people are referring to. Any store worth their salt will know what you are asking and pick one out for you if you are ordering online or over the phone. If you're looking for shorter shots that will anny and then quickly dump back right, whippets are a great option. If you're looking to throw fh cleanly with good form and have a complete game then do what Mr. Ellis recommended.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:16 am

Like I said, I'm not really looking for an average straight throw. I want something that is stupidly over stable so I can throw a max power anhyzer and have it flip back over fairly quick. Which a Flick does under most circstances. But if I really bomb it down the course, it takes a minimum of 200-250 feet before it starts to turn over. I'm just looking for something that will turn over even more quick than a Flick. I know it sounds useless, but I don't play too seriously. I play the same way I shoot pool. I enjoy going for extremely ridiculous shots that really are unnecessary. It just makes the game more interesting.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby JR » Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:46 am

Nuke OS, Quasar OS?, XXX, Spirit. Firebirds even with flat tops belong to the next of straighter still very overstable class with the Force (Discraft) and CFR C PD (Discmania).
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Troubling Flick

Postby Trent2011 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:31 am

The disc I was initially looking at was the Nuke OS since it is rated as a longer distance driver than the Flick with the same or closest stability to it. Now those are manufacturer specs, of course, and the closest thing I've found as a "review" was the hugelisting of disc specs somebody posted earlier in the thread. It listed the OS as less stable than the Flick with the same range. It did say it was more stable than a regular Nuke, but I'm assuming if the range ratings are similar to "speed" ratings that its going to perform worse than my Flick.
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