Finding my Putter

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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby PMantle » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:42 am

Crosseyed0811 wrote: Something about the gyro overmolds made me actually able to feel the weight of the disc shift in my hand for the first (and only) time ever.

Now I'm wondering if this was my issue since it is the only MVP I've ever thrown.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:49 am

PMantle wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote: Something about the gyro overmolds made me actually able to feel the weight of the disc shift in my hand for the first (and only) time ever.

Now I'm wondering if this was my issue since it is the only MVP I've ever thrown.


It is possible but low and left might come from slips so can you pinch harder with the index finger and the thumb? Up and down plus left to right.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:52 am

Come on, I needed some JR insights on my last post :P Help a brotha out
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby PMantle » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:53 am

JR wrote:
PMantle wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote: Something about the gyro overmolds made me actually able to feel the weight of the disc shift in my hand for the first (and only) time ever.

Now I'm wondering if this was my issue since it is the only MVP I've ever thrown.


It is possible but low and left might come from slips so can you pinch harder with the index finger and the thumb? Up and down plus left to right.

I suppose. I'll give it another go when it's warmer. The fact that it happens more often with that one disc makes me wonder though.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:40 am

PMantle wrote:
JR wrote:
PMantle wrote:
Crosseyed0811 wrote: Something about the gyro overmolds made me actually able to feel the weight of the disc shift in my hand for the first (and only) time ever.

Now I'm wondering if this was my issue since it is the only MVP I've ever thrown.


It is possible but low and left might come from slips so can you pinch harder with the index finger and the thumb? Up and down plus left to right.

I suppose. I'll give it another go when it's warmer. The fact that it happens more often with that one disc makes me wonder though.


While you test it another more generally applicable test is to move the thumb toward the center of the disc in quarter inch increments to see if the discs stop leaving left underpowered. Which is a tell tale sign of slips more of the early than late kind.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:59 am

Crosseyed0811 wrote:Come on, I needed some JR insights on my last post :P Help a brotha out


I did not realize there was a question :-) Can you loan an MVP putter especially the Ion since one version of them is already familiar to you? So you should be able to get reacquainted with quickly for free. I like Anodes better YMMV No Tangent experience. I'm not keen on getting MVPs until grip issues are resolved. Meaning i will use what i already have in the summer when it is dry not 75 % of the year here. As long as you don't have slips MVP putters are great and hard to beat on laser putts or laserish hybrid spin/pitch putts. Ions and Anodes are even better at long range putts and with clean releases in approaches and drives.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:21 am

Mainly I'm wondering about this part:

"So I'm honestly not sure if it was just a lucky day where some technique was clicking or if the Ion was actually assisting the technique in clicking."

That weight shift I felt that day pulling the disc through was great, and as I understand something that is helpful in learning to get the proper snap. Is it reasonable to think the Ion actually assisted in doing so or was I just having a good day and a disc is a disc? If its actually plausible and likely that the MVP putter was helping me feel the snap then that's worth the extra few dollars to me to get some again. I never felt like I had any grip issues with them when I had them, even when they had some moisture on them. I can imagine if it was colder around here then that might be the case.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:33 am

Discspeed too thinks that the overmold induced gyroscopics, however small the effect may be, might help in making the disc feel heavy against the finger tips when the disc pivots. It is good to learn to feel it. The more often you feel it the less finger pressure is needed to notice it much of the time. Not always probably but still with a much lower detection threshold. I don't get too many extra feet from a good disc pivot with loose pinky to middle fingers to allow as free as possible a pivot around the index finger and thumb pinch. Pinching too little or too late and getting too loose with pinky to middle finger makes early left slips all too easy though. So it is good to know the proper balance of gripping power per each finger for drives and approaches. There anything that helps in feeling the disc pivot as a training tool could be useful. But you could tape a coin or few onto the rear of the disc in the maximum reach back position or anything as heavy as you need. As long as it is not sharp and placed precariously and loosely to shoot off if the tape rips out.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:48 am

Mmk, got me thinking I may want to try to check out the MVP stuff again for putters. I'll have to check out what's in my local shop next time I'm there. Where's a good place to get a rundown of what to expect of them? I remember when I had them before some people talked about the differences between weights and stiffnesses for driving and putting that was pretty helpful then.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:37 am

Lighter ones glide better as usual and clear Neutrons are more overstable than the earlier variations with an opaque center. Protons are the stiffest early opaque ones fade the least in Ions. Proton medium Anode fades as little and soft ones fade harder. I have not futzed around with the stiffer and slicker Neutrons so i cannot comment about them. The reason is that i prefer all rounder discs that can handle most conditions and i got bit in competition rain by the opaque ones.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:12 am

JR wrote:The reason is that i prefer all rounder discs


What do you use then?
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:35 am

There is no perfect all rounder single disc but using two at the same time helps a ton. Soft X Banger GT handles most throws putts to drives but straight then hard left shots especially in the wind are best left to OS putters. Still the soft X Banger handles some wind quite well. For stiff discs Anode Proton medium is pretty great. I don't know about Neutron Anodes not having thrown them so they might be even better at least they should be even harder and the medium is hard enough. Opto Pure is flexier but flies well. MVPs and Pures share the trouble of pushing through hyzer/anny at higher speeds for a long time until they slow down. The Banger moves sideways earlie and faster and so does the hard Star Aviar P & A which should definitely be fondled for feel at least. It too is a good all round putter when cold and moisture is not an issue. I have thrown it in the snow and i'm touchy to poor tackiness. It is not optimal but usable more so grip wise than MVP discs. Mercy is fine and so is Sole which comes in firm version. There is a new kid on the block now in Dynamic Discs Judge. I have a soft one and it flies well but i have serious doubts about the durability but the flight seems great initially. I have not thrown the non softs to see if they fly as nicely and mine is brand new so i don't know about breaking in. If the feel is right you should try to test a harder Judge har har :-) I need to use the Judge on more courses and more lines to see what it can do but i'm very impressed initially. I was with the Opto Pure too until i noticed the tendency to push through hyzer/anny which is true for MVPs too at lest prior to the Tangent. So far the Banger GT is my favorite before the Judge gets a full work out. If the Judge survives it it will become the top dog for me. Mercy next in my faves than the Anode medium despite the grip issues meaning it would be much higher up with a tackier feel. YMMV.

FLX Challenger is nice so maybe you should also fondle a Cryztal Z Challenger because those are hard.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:55 pm

You're making me want to track down a couple of stiff bangers (I know they exist, I've had some) and stick with them... Or maybe I just need to really give the soft stuff a try and see if I can get used to them... I always wanted to like the Bangers but figured they were probably more of a gimmicky disc and other discs could do the same things better. I don't have the time (or money) to really get out and test discs out fully so I rely on you guys here to help me narrow things down to make better choices on what to try.


(Oh and I've wanted to get on and type that reply up for a few days now :P YAY For the site being back!)
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby JR » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:43 am

Normally FLX makes discs more OS and i've only thrown the Challenger in FLX and in that plastic it flies well although Sole, Mercy and Judge are straighter. Chally FLX is fine in the HSS portion but a bit more LSS yet a perfectly fine disc. No idea about Pro D Chally. There are plenty of options that are not soft or porcelain plate and i wouldn't wonder if some of the stiff but not porcelain plates could work for you. A little softer yet stiff discs open up a lot of possibilities.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Finding my Putter

Postby Crosseyed0811 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:51 pm

JR wrote:Opto Pure is in primo plastic durability and material wise but it is not as hard as some less durable materials and a little tacky when dry and in non cold weather. Opto Pure does have some flexion in the flight plate especially in hot weather. It is more flexy than the kind of discs you prefer.


We can bring this thread to a close now I think. Stopped by PIAS again today to feel up the Gateway stuff a little more and check for heavier Ringers when my wife picked up a disc and said "ooh" and handed it to me... Zero Hard Pure.

I threw some Pures over a year ago and really liked them (Grip line). However my DX Aviar that always has been my standard caused problems cause of the feel and I figured the Grip line would never break in how I wanted it and I hated how the Zero line felt... At that time there were no other options so I moved on.

Today I picked up the Zero Hard Pures and they felt almost identical in plastic to my old Aviar. Super stiff feeling. I got 2. Also had 2 GL Pures for like $20 bucks a piece and I had to make myself buy one of those too. I know they have Opto now and I'll probably get one of those sometime, but I couldn't pass on the GL. Said it was a limited run for Sun King? Looking forward to getting to throw them ;)

Edit: just got back from some practice putting, field work, then a quick round a the short 9 hole course with the wife. First putts with these things sealed it. They feel great coming out of my hand. Now I have some questions about the mold now but I'll take that over to the Pure thread, I know I saw it one time....
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