Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests critique

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Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests critique

Postby Jank » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:01 pm

First video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8Lh2Otz28

Second video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBeeAvB-v4c

He generates roughly 300-350. Would like to get up to 450-500 obviously.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby JR » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:39 pm

Even with the lunge forward and the arm not climbing that much from reach back to rip the disc rises. That comes from the wrist being up. You could reach back farther.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby Disc Golf of Course » Fri May 03, 2013 7:39 pm

Technique looks pretty solid! The reach straight back and pull across the chest look good to me.

For maximum distance, try turning around more, past straight back. For my top distance (450'+ feet), my wind-up goes well past straight back. Accuracy does suffer so only go past 180 straight back when you have a very open hole or are just going for your best distance.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby JR » Sat May 04, 2013 3:50 am

I've turned 210 degrees or so away from the target in the reach back for a little more power and a lot less accuracy and consistency which is ok on an open hole that is so long that you cannot reach the basket on the second shot without that extra effort. Otherwise it is a very risky proposition to turn back more than a straight reach back.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:41 am

So, this is actually me in the video. Hopefully that video accurately represents my throw but I was a little tense on the first few.

On a good day with perfect conditions I can throw 400 or a bit more, but that's not consistent.

I have been trying to watch some of the tutorials on driving but I think it's messing up my timing a bit. I feel like I can generate more distance but I'm not able to put it all together.

I definitely struggle with pulling it back further, yet maintaining form. I also sometimes have the high release problem. I'm not sure how to solve that. It feels like maybe I'm not dragging it across my chest. Do I need to work on punching it through (not even sure I fully get that) or snapping my wrist?



@jr
What do you mean by the wrist being "up"?



Thanks again to everyone for the help
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby itlnstln » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:36 am

ranger wrote:I definitely struggle with pulling it back further, yet maintaining form. I also sometimes have the high release problem. I'm not sure how to solve that. It feels like maybe I'm not dragging it across my chest. Do I need to work on punching it through (not even sure I fully get that) or snapping my wrist?


Slowing things down helps a lot. You can reach back further, but IMO, longer reach-backs yield incremental gains and as JR mentioned could be detrimental more than helpful. I see a few things, and they kind of build on each other:

-Your upper body appears to over-rotate causing...
-Apparent strong-arming and/or timing compensation to make up for...
-Leaning/falling off to the right which is particularly noteworthy since, in the first vid, you're throwing hyzers. In other words, you're showing (me, anyway) that you're going to throw anhyzer, but it's coming out hyzer which is inefficient at best.

The nose-up problem might just be a wrist angle thing that just requires practice to solve. One concept that helped me was Brad Walker's "in/out" motions. My "in" motion (reach back to disc at the right pec) is slow, smooth and controlled. It's just enough to help provide some momentum to explode in the "out" motion (hip drive, disc from right pec to launch). In fact, it feels like my "in" motion is so slow that sometimes I feel like I forgot to reach back since I feel like the disc sits at my right pec forever.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:07 am

thanks for the tips

At what point do I over-rotate? Am I spinning too much at the end?

Is the falling to the right during the follow through? How would I eliminate that? I'm not sure why I'm throwing hyzers. I was trying to throw an anhyzer but maybe I wasn't focusing.


I think agree about the reaching back. It causes my throw to become even more awkward.


Do you think slowing it down is the answer to some of these issues?
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby Stringbean » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:20 am

If itlnstln is correct about the over-rotation, it sounds like you have the same problem that I did. I saw a 75 foot increase when I kept my lower back loose during the initial 180 degree rotation. This allowed my hips to get out front and corrected the over-rotation of my shoulders. It also allows for a more explosive rotation of your core when the muscles go from loose to firing open.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby Stringbean » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:32 am

Have you tried right pec drill? It is easy to isolate your problems using this drill. Try throwing flat, hyzer, and annhyzer starting with a standstill and elbow out front (disc at right pec or lower).

If the disc is coming out how you intended, then the problem is more than likely with your posture / balance / footwork. If it isn't coming out how you intended, then the problem is likely in your grip or wrist angle.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby itlnstln » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:26 am

ranger wrote:thanks for the tips

At what point do I over-rotate? Am I spinning too much at the end?


You over-rotate through the entire throw; you should be roughly 90 deg. away from the target at the hit (then momentum carries you through the rest). You appear to be almost, if not, completely faced up at the hit. This tells me you're strong-arming and compensating for timing to get the throw to go in the general direction you want.

Is the falling to the right during the follow through? How would I eliminate that? I'm not sure why I'm throwing hyzers. I was trying to throw an anhyzer but maybe I wasn't focusing.


Fixing your rotation will fix the falling. Some folks may need to step into the throw a bit similar to how a left-handed batter might drive a ball on the outside part of the plate to the opposite field. YMMV. When you're over compensating for this, you'll probably be leaning left as you finish. This is basically where you want to be for a hyzer. Since you would be leaning back for an anhyzer, you might still pull out of your shot to the right, but it should be on the correct angle.

Once you have your balance down, then work on the disc angles. See the "telegraphing your shot" article on the main page along with all the other great articles there. It helps to re-read them several times throughout your progress. You may or may not understand some concepts until you start to have some breakthroughs that will give you that "a-ha!" moment. I read the articles on the bent elbow technique and distance secrets many, many times before I understood everything.

I think agree about the reaching back. It causes my throw to become even more awkward.


I agree. This is easy enough to work on when you get the basics down.

Do you think slowing it down is the answer to some of these issues?


Slowing it down is always the answer.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby itlnstln » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:30 am

Stringbean wrote:If itlnstln is correct about the over-rotation, it sounds like you have the same problem that I did. I saw a 75 foot increase when I kept my lower back loose during the initial 180 degree rotation. This allowed my hips to get out front and corrected the over-rotation of my shoulders. It also allows for a more explosive rotation of your core when the muscles go from loose to firing open.


This is a good point. If you do it right, you almost don't need any "input" from your arms. Driving the hips then core and stopping your shoulders will whip the arm out faster than you could move it on your own. The only thing I (consciously) do with my arms is grip tightly at the hit and give the disc a slight tug on the disc as it leaves.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:53 am

Stringbean wrote:Have you tried right pec drill? It is easy to isolate your problems using this drill. Try throwing flat, hyzer, and annhyzer starting with a standstill and elbow out front (disc at right pec or lower).

If the disc is coming out how you intended, then the problem is more than likely with your posture / balance / footwork. If it isn't coming out how you intended, then the problem is likely in your grip or wrist angle.



will be trying this
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:00 pm

itlnstln wrote:
ranger wrote:thanks for the tips

At what point do I over-rotate? Am I spinning too much at the end?


You over-rotate through the entire throw; you should be roughly 90 deg. away from the target at the hit (then momentum carries you through the rest). You appear to be almost, if not, completely faced up at the hit. This tells me you're strong-arming and compensating for timing to get the throw to go in the general direction you want.

Is the falling to the right during the follow through? How would I eliminate that? I'm not sure why I'm throwing hyzers. I was trying to throw an anhyzer but maybe I wasn't focusing.


Fixing your rotation will fix the falling. Some folks may need to step into the throw a bit similar to how a left-handed batter might drive a ball on the outside part of the plate to the opposite field. YMMV. When you're over compensating for this, you'll probably be leaning left as you finish. This is basically where you want to be for a hyzer. Since you would be leaning back for an anhyzer, you might still pull out of your shot to the right, but it should be on the correct angle.

Once you have your balance down, then work on the disc angles. See the "telegraphing your shot" article on the main page along with all the other great articles there. It helps to re-read them several times throughout your progress. You may or may not understand some concepts until you start to have some breakthroughs that will give you that "a-ha!" moment. I read the articles on the bent elbow technique and distance secrets many, many times before I understood everything.

I think agree about the reaching back. It causes my throw to become even more awkward.


I agree. This is easy enough to work on when you get the basics down.

Do you think slowing it down is the answer to some of these issues?


Slowing it down is always the answer.


thank you again

do you have a video that might help with the rotating? I kinda suck at understanding things like that without a visual.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ELItheICEman » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:16 pm

I recently made a breakthrough with my technique when I started working from the hit back again (I've done this several times now, each time yielding something new). I ditched the run-up entirely and started my pull from the reach back. That gave me full control and feel of body/hip rotation, and it let me think more about my finishing position than I could with a run-up. As a result, instantly hitting 350'+. From a stand-still.

By the way, were those videos taken in Rochester at Ellison Park? Looks like #2 to me.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:31 pm

Yup, Ellison hole 2.


What do you mean by the hit back?
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