Body position - hit point

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Re: Body position - hit point

Postby jtowneagle » Sat May 25, 2013 12:45 am

I am not trying to argue the physics of throw a disc. When mentioned pushing your front shoulder thru something like you were tackling it, I was only providing a short easy to follow solution that happens to be the same solution as yours. When we follow thru on a throw we move forward, momentum provides the most power behind a throw. I was. Reifly explaining how to transfer his weight forward into the shot. His shoulders will obviously have to open or clear.
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Re: Body position - hit point

Postby luma » Sat May 25, 2013 10:22 am

This is why I love this forum! I really thought I was playing well last weekend. I played around 980 rated golf (results are not on the pdga page yet), finished -12 on my last 17 holes and only missed the final by one place. I hit tight gaps (there were some 5-6' wide ones, the other ones max. 10') like never before, I think out of 20, I hit around 15, including some with my forehand (that I started to really learn 3 weeks ago). Then you see that picture and start to think "well this doesn't quite look perfect, maybe you might want to ask the guys on DGR what they think. Can't be too much wrong as you played pretty good." Then you wait a couple of days and JR posts like a book-long answer and you think "damn, didn't I think I was playing pretty good?" :D Don't get me wrong, I don't complain, I just love it. I think this here is the highest quality resource for any discgolf related questions and stuff.

Now, to my spaghetty-body-throw...I have quite a lot to do with university and a ballgolf german league matchday, but I will hopefully get out to throw some plastic in the next days. Until then I will try and do some indoor practice. Just do the move 500 times and hope that my brain takes it.
Comparison: I have to practice 1) smooth run-up and level reach back and pull with the elbow 2) right foot further right, so my feet are not 45° closed, rather 0-15° 3) brace my right leg, don't twist it 4) don't hurl (i hope thats the word) the disc around, but rather go forward with the momentum

Yeah, so actually I'm not THAT busy... :D :D :D
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Re: Body position - hit point

Postby JR » Sat May 25, 2013 9:08 pm

Climo used the word rounding. instead of that you want the disc moving in a straight line and for that goal heel pivot, Bracing of the right leg to allow a pause in the body rotation and heel pivot onset delaying until the disc is at or later than the right pec position, hips twisting and the shoulders turning etc. are all going for that same goal. Which provides a little more power and a lot more accuracy and consistency.

People throw well with all manner of unoptimal forms which goes to show that there is some margin of error in throwing and that people can learn a lot with practice and do well even if their game is not picture polished. OTOH many who throw with less than great form fall short of reaching 1040 level rating unlike guys who are there with tremendous form. Nobody over 1030 rating has a poor form.

jtowneagle boxers say you are not hitting the other guy hard if your rear leg ain't grounded. That comes from Newton saying that for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction so ramming another guy with a fixed in place closed shoulder proves nothing because it is the rear leg that drives the ramming not allowing you to spin around from ramming the other guy. If you were to follow the advice of Bruce Lee of hitting through the target=making him spin you would not use a fixed shoulder against a guy necessarily because opening the shoulder at the point of impact would spin the target around harder than a fixed in place closed shoulder. In a disc golf throw the shoulder turn actually happens before the hit so it is not a follow through only movement. Rather it is a power generating move that is optimized by a long long follow through arm swing. I assume the physics play the same in tennis. Aren't you supposed to flick the wrist to the right when the ball touches the racket like they do in baseball? The laws of physics stay the same no matter what the sport is as long as the movements and goals are the same.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Body position - hit point

Postby jtowneagle » Sun May 26, 2013 9:33 pm

You wrist is locked in tennis. And your right the back leg should be pushing off the ground until release, that is what I was hoping he would infer from my advice. He was opening his chest and hips early in the pictures. I appreciate the depth you explain your answers and it will me more deeply understand my throws.
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Re: Body position - hit point

Postby JR » Mon May 27, 2013 10:22 am

It is interesting that in tennis the wrist is locked. Is this the case each time backhand and forehand serve or return? I understand that in returning a full power strike from an accomplished man locking the wrist is a must. The difference to disc golf is that we are not catching a high kinetic energy object and returning it. For us the amount of required muscle power is less to break the wrist and we need all the movement range from the body that is possible to get acceleration to maximum exit speed. The amount of power i assume to achieve that should be way less than stopping an incoming tennis ball from a good player and returning it. Speed of events matters too, it would be interesting to know how quickly the tennis ball squashes against the racket and is propelled with the arm movement vs a disc golf snap+disc pivot. There is a limit to the speed how fast the arm can move. It would not be surprising to me that a tennis ball stop and return would happen faster than a disc golf snap+disc pivot. Considering Simon Lizotte set a new IDK if it is an official exit speed world record in a disc golf throw of 144 KPH. The previous highest speed i heard of was in the 130s from a tomahawk by Ville Piippo and a slower BH by Jussi Meresmaa in the 130s. Not many disc golfers get anything close to those speeds. I got to 92 KPH tops in radar at sea level throwing to 420' tops normally. And with wind help with flukes with skips a little farther.

IIRC a tennis player in my high school snapped his wrist in low speed returns meaning the ball was moving slowly before hitting his racket. It was more noticeable in forehands. The direction that the arm muscles move with more force just as in disc golf.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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