Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests critique

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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ELItheICEman » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:40 pm

If you haven't yet seen this video, watch it a few times and see what you can take away from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo

It sounds dumb, but I really do get something new out of it every time I start back at the hit and work backwards.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby Stringbean » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:03 pm

It's important to keep in mind that it isn't all arm when doing the right pec drills. You have to have a little bit of core and shoulder rotation to get the momentum going. You need to be able to feel the weight of the disc as your forearm swings out and then sling that weight towards the target at the last moment (the slight tug that itlnstln mentioned).
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby itlnstln » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:10 pm

ranger wrote:thank you again

do you have a video that might help with the rotating? I kinda suck at understanding things like that without a visual.


This one from Dave Feldberg is really good: http://vimeo.com/64171158. Notice how he "finishes" when talking about Climo. While exaggerated, it's the opposite of what you're doing. The big take away is that "rotation" is really driving all your force on a line; it's not a "spin," per se. Your body should is, say, 180 deg. away from the target. Your hips, as shown in the video, go from 180 to 90 driving forward. This pulls your upper body the same way, stopping your shoulders at 90 deg. slinging your arm forward and whipping the disc out. As Dan Beto mentioned in a similar thread, you would be wise figuring out the upper body timing before trying to get the lower body involved - this is all part of working from the hit back.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:33 pm

if the front of the tee pad is 12 o'clock, should my shoulders be at 11 o'clock when I release?
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:16 pm

I also think I start my pull back too early but I'm struggling on how to solve that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:03 am

Many top pros release the disc when their body faces 9.30-10 o'clock. Carlsen's thesis mentioned that the only movement that he measured (a lot of them) had statistical significance at a 95 % confidence level was the length of the elbow movement. If the arm is straight at the rip pointed at 12 o'clock the disc pull distance is the longest when the right side points at the target. However; that distance is not much shorter is you got the body to face at 12 o'clock at the rip but you would have a lot more power generation from a lot more muscles working for a lot longer time prior to the rip if you turn to face the target or almost do that.

If the wrist is "up" meaning being neutral like you would shake hands the front of the disc would be higher than the rear. If you pushed the wrist down from neutral you could get the disc to be parallel to the forearm muscles and the disc would not rise so high and fly faster and glide more forward instead of stalling.

Regarding the footwork read my signature.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby itlnstln » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:25 am

JR wrote:Many top pros release the disc when their body faces 9.30-10 o'clock.


I like this. I'm going to use clock terminology instead of "roughly 90 deg." 9:30-10:00 is exactly right with the disc leaving about 12:00 (probably closer to 11-11:30). If my shoulders get past 10:00, I'm spraying right. 9:30 is a little better for me, personally. I'm a tall(-ish), lanky dude with big shoulders and long arms, so the extra length of arm-whip (however long) works well for me.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:00 pm

back at it today and I'm pretty sure I'm getting worse but I'll keep going. I think I have some idea of what I'm doing wrong and what I need to be doing but I have too many different ideas swimming around in my head. Not sure what to do about this


Few observations/questions:

1) I don't understand the hip video with Dave at all. I mean I can do the exercise he shows but when I try to include it in my shot I end up throwing high and leaning back.


2) Stopping the over rotation seems to be causing other issues. Sometimes I just accidentally plant my feet and eliminate the follow through. Sometimes I throw sky high.

3) I've been working with my run-up and timming and it feels a bit better. When I reach back, all my weight is on my left foot (right?) and this seems to be where it really breaks down for me. Do I want to push off my left at this point? When do I start pulling through? Do I start exactly when my right foot comes down?



I'm starting to wonder if I'm too stuck I'm my old garbage ways to break the habits. I have been working on some of the stationary throws/drills and I feel like I'm doing okay. It's putting it into the run-up that's confounding me.


I'll try to get another video up at the end of the week.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby seabas22 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:15 pm

You are not in a good athletic posture in your reachback with your lower spine extended toward the target so you are leaning away side view like /. Once you do that everything else is cooked. You want to hold your lower spine back(stacked posture) and shift everything together from the lower spine forward in good posture and balance. You need to change your balance and stride the front foot forward and brace your weight/spine from behind you(in a closed stance) so the upper spine doesn't collapse ahead of the front foot and lower spine.






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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:01 pm

I believe you're correct that my posture is a mess but I'm struggling to fully understand what you're describing.

From watching the profile vid of my throw I can't see exactly what's happening. I place my left hand on my leg, which I'm sure isn't helping. Should I be leaning back until the actual release?
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:42 pm

itlnstln wrote:
JR wrote:Many top pros release the disc when their body faces 9.30-10 o'clock.


I like this. I'm going to use clock terminology instead of "roughly 90 deg." 9:30-10:00 is exactly right with the disc leaving about 12:00 (probably closer to 11-11:30). If my shoulders get past 10:00, I'm spraying right. 9:30 is a little better for me, personally. I'm a tall(-ish), lanky dude with big shoulders and long arms, so the extra length of arm-whip (however long) works well for me.


The body is in the same position with 90 degrees left of the target or 9 o'clock the terminology does not change anything. If you spray right trying to turn the torso closer toward the target it means the arm is not yet in the correct place leading the movements, the hips or the shoulders or both lead the movements. Possible causes are too slow arm pull from the left pec forward, too short a pause or super quick hip and/or shoulder turning. Spraying right does not happen if the elbow is well ahead of the body at the right pec position and waiting a little longer in the pause and having some core muscle tightness without flat footed plant step helps a lot in avoiding too early momentum shift from the x steps into twisting the hips.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby seabas22 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:45 pm

Your hips should be turning backwards as the front foot moves forward and hips should be closed at the plant. You are turning your hips forward before your weight transfers.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby JR » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:52 pm

1 watch it again and again and try different left leg push power and different speeds and using the torso too to get upright at the rip.
2 More repetitions watching out for all of teh causes and trying to eliminate them one at a time preferably at a very slow speed in the beginning tends to help people. Mind you it can take months to change everything and old habits can creep back in after years.
3 When you have enough momentum you should become upright without pushing with the left leg. Then you can maximize the acceleration later in the throw by pushing later with the left leg. Exactly when depends on your physiology, relative power of different body parts, nervous system etc. So trying out different acceleration points at different muscle efforts from that point onward is needed to show which way is the longest for you now. It should change over time as you become more fit. The arm should start moving after the plant step lands.

ranger wrote:back at it today and I'm pretty sure I'm getting worse but I'll keep going. I think I have some idea of what I'm doing wrong and what I need to be doing but I have too many different ideas swimming around in my head. Not sure what to do about this


Few observations/questions:

1) I don't understand the hip video with Dave at all. I mean I can do the exercise he shows but when I try to include it in my shot I end up throwing high and leaning back.


2) Stopping the over rotation seems to be causing other issues. Sometimes I just accidentally plant my feet and eliminate the follow through. Sometimes I throw sky high.

3) I've been working with my run-up and timming and it feels a bit better. When I reach back, all my weight is on my left foot (right?) and this seems to be where it really breaks down for me. Do I want to push off my left at this point? When do I start pulling through? Do I start exactly when my right foot comes down?



I'm starting to wonder if I'm too stuck I'm my old garbage ways to break the habits. I have been working on some of the stationary throws/drills and I feel like I'm doing okay. It's putting it into the run-up that's confounding me.


I'll try to get another video up at the end of the week.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:24 am

seabas22 wrote:Your hips should be turning backwards as the front foot moves forward and hips should be closed at the plant. You are turning your hips forward before your weight transfers.



So, turn the hips back as the right foot moves forward? I'm still not sure what exactly it means to have closed hips.

When the plant foot hits, should the hips be at 9:00 and the left foot behind the right?
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Re: Friend impressed with feedback from forum, requests crit

Postby ranger » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:25 am

JR wrote:1 watch it again and again and try different left leg push power and different speeds and using the torso too to get upright at the rip.
2 More repetitions watching out for all of teh causes and trying to eliminate them one at a time preferably at a very slow speed in the beginning tends to help people. Mind you it can take months to change everything and old habits can creep back in after years.
3 When you have enough momentum you should become upright without pushing with the left leg. Then you can maximize the acceleration later in the throw by pushing later with the left leg. Exactly when depends on your physiology, relative power of different body parts, nervous system etc. So trying out different acceleration points at different muscle efforts from that point onward is needed to show which way is the longest for you now. It should change over time as you become more fit. The arm should start moving after the plant step lands.

ranger wrote:back at it today and I'm pretty sure I'm getting worse but I'll keep going. I think I have some idea of what I'm doing wrong and what I need to be doing but I have too many different ideas swimming around in my head. Not sure what to do about this


Few observations/questions:

1) I don't understand the hip video with Dave at all. I mean I can do the exercise he shows but when I try to include it in my shot I end up throwing high and leaning back.


2) Stopping the over rotation seems to be causing other issues. Sometimes I just accidentally plant my feet and eliminate the follow through. Sometimes I throw sky high.

3) I've been working with my run-up and timming and it feels a bit better. When I reach back, all my weight is on my left foot (right?) and this seems to be where it really breaks down for me. Do I want to push off my left at this point? When do I start pulling through? Do I start exactly when my right foot comes down?



I'm starting to wonder if I'm too stuck I'm my old garbage ways to break the habits. I have been working on some of the stationary throws/drills and I feel like I'm doing okay. It's putting it into the run-up that's confounding me.


I'll try to get another video up at the end of the week.


very helpful

thanks
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