Hiprotation or snap

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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby Steady 26542 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:04 pm

Someone put up a YouTube video with Yeti explaining the hip turn and so forth. It's worth watching. Just search Yeti & Disc Nation.
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby zj1002 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:35 pm

It's definitely worth watching. I play Yeti's puppet in it

Form ain't the best but what Yeti is talking about is 100% legit
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby JR » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:50 pm

fusan wrote:Let me quote myself...

fusan wrote:Regarding the two right pec drills you mention, I understand your point. But as I explained before, I have build a lot of power from legs, hips and
shoulders before I reach 90 deg away from the target. That energy is transferred to the arm while it is straightening.


I see a fair amount of pro players (Mcbeth, KJ, Kallstrom) doing it that way, or so it seems. They start by pushing the legs to rotate the hips while
bending the elbow inward. Once the disc at in the Right Pec and the shoulders are 90 deg from the target, they fire out with the arm with not so
much movement from the other bodyparts.
I doesent seem like they actively rotate the shoulders from the right Pec.


There are different styles just so that we are clear on that check out bent elbow as a search on this forum. Also check out how Will Shusterick points his knees inward almost toward each other and when the left knee straightens out. I am not disputing the fact that you can create momentum by pushing with the left leg right after the plant at all. Consider this: you cannot accelerate with the left leg then any more and force equals mass times acceleration. So no more force available from the leg when it counts and that is late in the throw when the disc should reach the maximum speed so not optimal. Unless everything else moves so quickly that when the left knee is straight the disc has ripped out. I don't know of anyone who has so fast torso and arm that could keep up with the left leg pushing hard from the plant.

Shoulder rotation should also come late in order to gain acceleration and the shoulders should open far in the follow through starting just ahead of the elbow chop which in turn needs to happen very little earlier than the rip because that movement must be super quick. Masterbeato wrote once that the elbow moving forward needs to be like a punch as if you were trying to put the elbow through a piece of plywood. Which means so fast that the tendons around the elbow stretch before the chop and some back to normal length (plyometric extension) straightening the elbow faster than is possible with the muscles alone. Which creates the same effect for the wrist to snap it hard.

Some Swedes rotate the shoulders very hard and the fastest that i've seen is Daniel "albatross on the world's toughest hole" Strandberg (Scandinavian open 2010 hole 1 1100'+ par 6 and others like Markus Källström, William Gummesson, Linus Åström, Oscar Stenfelt to mention a few and the whole arm from the shoulder socket too Camilla Jernberg.

So there are actually two shoulder movements. From the upper torso moving both shoulders in unison relative to the center of the body and moving the upper arm vs the right shoulder. Both movements add power and firing just shy of the rip and well into the follow through adds acceleration, power and distance to the throw. The more muscle groups firing there are the faster and farther the disc will go -logical isn't it?

Here's Yeti and ZJ:


Compare how much more extreme those Swedes are in the shoulders turning before the rip than ZJ is and notice how far ZJ too turns his shoulders in the follow through. That illustrates how much power the shoulder turn is generating.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby Steady 26542 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:51 pm

zj1002 wrote:It's definitely worth watching. I play Yeti's puppet in it

Form ain't the best but what Yeti is talking about is 100% legit

I totally missed that was you. :oops: I'd give anything to have your form. I went to the field today to try to emulate your form but struck out... It's hard to figure out what you aren't doing correctly when there's no one to help...
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby Stringbean » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:21 pm

ZJ, one thing that stood out to me was how it appeared as if you picked a spot on the ground in front of your left foot and stared at it up until the hit. Is this to help stop your shoulder rotation/elbow chop?
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby JR » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:14 am

Stringbean wrote:ZJ, one thing that stood out to me was how it appeared as if you picked a spot on the ground in front of your left foot and stared at it up until the hit. Is this to help stop your shoulder rotation/elbow chop?


If you mean after the x step has landed the head locking in place to look at that single spot on the ground it can help in creating a long enough pause. It is more of a golf shot Feldy kind of form that is mandatory for steep hyzers. However; if you have a limber neck that moves in concert with the movements of the body the weight of the head can be effectively enough separated from the movements in milder hyzers to annies without tilting the hyzer angle late in the throw. People with neck damage have said that even attempting it might be dangerous so YMMV. I am a former competition swimmer so neck muscles and a lot of neck mobility are not problems for me so i cannot speak for others. I can say that trying 70-80 degree hyzers need golf type of stopping of the head in place in order to avoid yanking the hyzer angle off before the rip. Trying to track the body movements or looking at the target before the body turns to face the target results in automatic hyzer angle missing.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hiprotation or snap

Postby zj1002 » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:21 am

I am not actually staring at the ground. Well not intentionally.

Part of my routine for executing my shot is basically picking the path for my legs. You can see my do this before I throw, and then I go back to my line. My form is 100% built on timing and the head down thing is a result of my form. I have no need to get my head around to the target on shots over 400ft(The purple disc I throw at the 9:00 mark is an LF that goes about 475ft on a frozen rope). The way I rock my shoulders down into place also won't allow me to look forward. If my eyes are watching anything it is my forearm/shoulder. If you watch it in full speed my eyes are only off the target for a second, if that.

JR brought up Feldberg and that is dead on. My form is a combination of hundreds of things I tried learning to get my body moving forward. I learned all my footwork and how to keep my shoulder down from practicing the Feldberg style swing. Tucking my head in is a result of this. As I finish my timing pump the front shoulder tucks down, at the same time my legs are down executing the final steps of the x-step. I have to keep my head down to throw this way.

Everything I do is an attempt to get myself moving forward. If I am moving forward, that's really the only place the disc can do with good enough mechanics.

The Feldberg swing is the best tool available to learn proper footwork. Well really to learn the importance of each step. You don't see the swing in my throw, but every bi-product of it - hips loaded, weight pause and transfer forward, shoulder down - are pretty visible.

So to answer your question - yes all of this helps me time my shoulder rotation, or stop it from happening too soon. My shoulder gets pretty far out in front of me before it turns compared to other players. Just be careful to not actually "lean forward" as this will rob you of a lot of power, and it does rob me if my feet are off.

I have hybrid form that's for sure.

My form has a heavy influence from Feldberg and Brinster style of throwing. With a little Mcbeth and Avery air pump thrown in for timing reasons.
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