Hitting the reset button

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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby Monocacy » Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:39 am

BroD: Hitting the reset button is a personal decision. I have done it many times, and my play has suffered accordingly afterwards, but each time yielded some overall improvement. I have yet to find the magic to leave the 300’ barrier in the dust, but continue to be optimistic that I’m getting closer.

For me, the main goal of my last “reset” was to avoid shoulder injury due to strong-arming / starting the pull too early. I was delighted to play a 36-hole tourney last weekend with no significant shoulder pain. Beat some of the young guys, too. For me, the “reset” was well worth it.

Best wishes whichever way you decide to go.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby BrotherDave » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:23 pm

I think most of my problem is related to thus: I lose the hammer pound sensation as I come across the pecs for some reason. My chain/whip is taut then it gets loose for some reason (probably something to do with opening/closing shoulders incorrectly) then I manage to get some tautness again right before the right pec drill/elbow chop part but by that point I've lost all momentum my footwork and body would have given it and the throw is about as weak as a no-step standstill, too weak to induce a follow-through usually.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby JR » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:15 am

Stopping is no good. Having a stiff arm muscle wise in the early part of the throw slows the arm down so not good either. Easy peasy up to right pec position +- something then bang on. How much that +- is depends on the player. Some throw far with an early rip most benefit from a later acceleration point.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby cubeofsoup » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:31 pm

BrotherDave wrote:I think most of my problem is related to thus: I lose the hammer pound sensation as I come across the pecs for some reason. My chain/whip is taut then it gets loose for some reason (probably something to do with opening/closing shoulders incorrectly) then I manage to get some tautness again right before the right pec drill/elbow chop part but by that point I've lost all momentum my footwork and body would have given it and the throw is about as weak as a no-step standstill, too weak to induce a follow-through usually.


Perhaps you will find salvation in attempting things with your throw that are drastically different. Almost to give you that "left hand" sensation. It can feel like you are doing something minutely different but the case is probably that you revert to habit in the quickest moments of the throw and no matter how hard you try, habit prevails. A way must be found to break the habit.

Typing this out makes me wish I had someone who was a form-studying-freak like me around here so we could nerd out together about our throws. I would love for someone to sit there and critique the every loving shit out of me so I could actually find something to improve. Recording video and getting feedback is good but it's too delayed of a return to settle in my brain. I think I need real teaching, someone to be there and say, "no move this here, pull later", etc. A teacher in real life might be just the thing. Instant feedback.

I know back when I was 12 or 13 and I was taking lessons for ball golf, there were a few things my teacher made me do that made it feel like I wouldn't even make contact with the ball. But I relaxed and took his advice, changed the grip, stance, etc. A few terrible duffs, slices, and wacks later...I make contact with one and it sails, effortlessly on a pure line. Then it clicks, now it feels natural. I think without someone forcing me into an uncomfortable (albeit correct) form, I would have never improved. I need that in disc now.

Who lives in Rochester and wants to yell at me?
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby JR » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:12 pm

Remote YELLL!!!! :-D
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby cubeofsoup » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:31 pm

JR I'll bring my macbook into my backyard, video chat with skype. I can throw into a net or something. It could work.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby JR » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:05 am

I have a slow mini notebook that is so slow that it can only show a couple of pictures per second so it is probably impossible to say much of anything useful because i cannot really see the throws. And i'm at UDT +2 so timing might be problematic. But if you can record the videos at the same time and upload them somewhere fast i might be able to download them and give feedback soonish. Within the same session hopefully.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby BrotherDave » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:54 pm

BrotherDave wrote:I think most of my problem is related to thus: I lose the hammer pound sensation as I come across the pecs for some reason. My chain/whip is taut then it gets loose for some reason (probably something to do with opening/closing shoulders incorrectly) then I manage to get some tautness again right before the right pec drill/elbow chop part but by that point I've lost all momentum my footwork and body would have given it and the throw is about as weak as a no-step standstill, too weak to induce a follow-through usually.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is a big culprit. Went out in the field today and deliberately made sure I was "pulling the hammer" the whole time and I was getting much cleaner throws, even got audible snap a couple times from disc slipping out early. Gotta try and keep this feeling in every throw and just ever so slowly build it up.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby BrotherDave » Wed May 15, 2013 5:35 pm

BrotherDave wrote:
JR wrote:Live instruction and feedback by an outside viewer should help a ton. Tendonitis ain't a bitch it's a whore from hell and you might have subconscious opening of the fingers for killed snap going on.

There may be truth to this. I have a habit that creeps in from time to time of loosening my grip as I come into the power pocket.

Okay, there is definite truth to this. I cannot stop doing this. As soon as I start my pull, my hand loosens up a lot, especially my middle, ring, and pinkie fingers. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I CAN"T STOP. I don't think it's directly tendinitis related. It's like an overcautious reaction to prevent strong-arming or something. I can't grip it loose enough to feel the hammer pound while being strong enough to keep the disc from slipping out before I have a chance to pinch hard.

I'm at a loss, I'm not sure how I can unlearn doing this.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby JR » Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 pm

It may be subconscious thus automatic. It happens to me especially when i'm tired. The obvious things to check are that you are well rested, not inflamed, seen a doctor about nerve electrical conductivity test to see if the nerves are pinched, move the thumb toward the center of the disc from half over the wing half on the flight plate in quarter or so inch increments and resting the base of the thumb on the flight plate pushing the outermost section of the thumb down in about 70 degree angle. As hard as you can once the elbow chop starts +- some time it might depend on the person when to push the thumb down while pinching with the index finger and if possible also raising the index finger against the thumb.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby niq » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:20 pm

BrotherDave wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
JR wrote:Live instruction and feedback by an outside viewer should help a ton. Tendonitis ain't a bitch it's a whore from hell and you might have subconscious opening of the fingers for killed snap going on.

There may be truth to this. I have a habit that creeps in from time to time of loosening my grip as I come into the power pocket.

Okay, there is definite truth to this. I cannot stop doing this. As soon as I start my pull, my hand loosens up a lot, especially my middle, ring, and pinkie fingers. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I CAN"T STOP. I don't think it's directly tendinitis related. It's like an overcautious reaction to prevent strong-arming or something. I can't grip it loose enough to feel the hammer pound while being strong enough to keep the disc from slipping out before I have a chance to pinch hard.

I'm at a loss, I'm not sure how I can unlearn doing this.


I realize this is old, and maybe you've moved on, but here is my experience:
If you lose track of the weight of the disc anywhere along the path between your reachback and the hit, the chances are about 9999999:1 that you're going to not be gripping at the right time (eg: slipping). On the flip side, if you're in control of the weight the entire way along the path, it's very intuitive/instinctual of when to really clamp down. I like to think of it like fishing, when you're casting your line, you're in control of the weight the entire time -> you slowly bring the weight forward (under complete control), and it's quite intuitive on when to actually hit the gas and shoot the weight forward. If you just try to swing your fishing pole forward as fast as you can (from reachback to cast), your cast is going to be shit.

Anyways, i could be wrong, i'm no authority on the subject, but hopefully it helps
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby inthedrift » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:02 pm

niq wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
BrotherDave wrote:
JR wrote:Live instruction and feedback by an outside viewer should help a ton. Tendonitis ain't a bitch it's a whore from hell and you might have subconscious opening of the fingers for killed snap going on.

There may be truth to this. I have a habit that creeps in from time to time of loosening my grip as I come into the power pocket.

Okay, there is definite truth to this. I cannot stop doing this. As soon as I start my pull, my hand loosens up a lot, especially my middle, ring, and pinkie fingers. I HAVE NO IDEA WHY I CAN"T STOP. I don't think it's directly tendinitis related. It's like an overcautious reaction to prevent strong-arming or something. I can't grip it loose enough to feel the hammer pound while being strong enough to keep the disc from slipping out before I have a chance to pinch hard.

I'm at a loss, I'm not sure how I can unlearn doing this.


I realize this is old, and maybe you've moved on, but here is my experience:
If you lose track of the weight of the disc anywhere along the path between your reachback and the hit, the chances are about 9999999:1 that you're going to not be gripping at the right time (eg: slipping). On the flip side, if you're in control of the weight the entire way along the path, it's very intuitive/instinctual of when to really clamp down. I like to think of it like fishing, when you're casting your line, you're in control of the weight the entire time -> you slowly bring the weight forward (under complete control), and it's quite intuitive on when to actually hit the gas and shoot the weight forward. If you just try to swing your fishing pole forward as fast as you can (from reachback to cast), your cast is going to be shit.

Anyways, i could be wrong, i'm no authority on the subject, but hopefully it helps


I like the comparison to casting a line
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby BrotherDave » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:21 pm

Somehow I got rid of the "too relaxed" grip thing. That was horrible, I hope it stays dead and buried. I guess I took my mind off it and was focused on something else and it more or less resolved itself.

I think I've accomplished my goal of having >300' power on speed dial, i.e. consistency. The answer: Like Shakira, my hips don't lie. Actually they weren't talking at all b/c I wasn't using them hardly. I always wondered why Beto did that little kick off with his back foot in the "Driving with Master Beto" video so I started incorporating pushing off the back leg into the throw and holy crap is the difference night and day. I can actually get my body into my throw and it fixed a lot of timing issues. Before my train was trying to leave the station without an engine car. Hips are leading the shoulders, shoulders leading the elbow, accelerate hard, hold on tight and the disc consistently sails pretty nice now. Got a little distance boost (actually messing around with a Sword now) and hitting lines and gaps in the woods a lot more consistently (the latter being my chief objective).

So I'm pretty thrilled. I need to tinker with my weight shift and forcing my pivot better (naturally), especially on my heels and not short changing my follow through if I want to get some big boy distance but I'm pretty satisfied with where I am. With my little hands and wussy grip strength I'm not entertaining flights of 500' fancy but if I can breach 400' occasionally that'd be tits.

A massive thank you to JR for all his help and also to each of you that chimed in. I really do appreciate it.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby JR » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:00 am

Grats. Legs are more powerful than arms and so are the hips so no wonder those help especially when their use is magnified with the arm acting as a lever.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Hitting the reset button

Postby Beetard » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:12 am

I am hitting the reset button too. This season I am learning to throw with my opposite hand.

It is going much better than I thought because I didn't previously spend years teaching myself screwed up positions and timing with my left hand.

In the past when I was trying to throw farther right handed, I took "acceleration" the wrong way and developed a bad habit of strong-arming and rushing my throws.

With leftie mode, I have dedicated myself to building my throw from the ground-up. I try to just start my throw with a good weight shift, try to start turning from the hip after that, and let my back, shoulders, arm, and then disc come through.

Around 1000 throws, and I now have over half of the distance leftie as I did righty.

The disc actually flies prettier left handed; seems to have more carry and penetration at the end of its flight instead of fizzling out.

It is funny how my right handed throws don't go as far as it seems like they should and my left handed throws go farther than they seem like they should.
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