Grip and Hand Size

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Grip and Hand Size

Postby daleh2013 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Hi All,

I've been playing for just over a year and am still toying with developing a good, consistent grip. Looked at literally hundreds of pictures and videos but I can't seem to come up with something workable. So, I am looking for a little advice. I think my issue is I have relatively large palms but shortish fingers. Nothing way out of whack or weird but enough of an issue to give me some issues. Best way to describe hand size would be glove size...it would be a Medium/Large cadet if that makes sense. How to hold the disc is another thing....placing the base of the disc along the lifeline of my palm doesn't allow me to generate a lot of spin but holding it more in my fingers feels like the disc could slip; especially when it's raining.

Any help would be appreciated!!

dale
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby niq » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:38 pm

Have you tried a standard power grip? If so, what are your issues with it?

Edit: Also, you asked a really broad question, you might want to be a little more specific? I assumed you were referring to driving, but are you in fact talking about driving? Mid range, putting?
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby JR » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:59 am

Some use one grip for all discs and distances but most i think use more than one grip. Power gripping a tall putter especially with a bead with short fingers can easily lead to finger sticking issues. Power grip from two to four fingers is ok for drivers and thinner beefier mids and some putters. Normally looser grips are better for taller shorter winged discs. The slower the disc the less there should be finger pressure except perhaps the thumb and the index finger once the wrist snaps forward. Thinner discs help too and discs that are so overstable that they don't flip even with scraping releases. Meaning the disc does not rip the fingers straight and off the disc soon but only opening the fingers a little and slowly so that the disc scrapes the fingers. Leading to wobble.

But we need a better description of your grips and with which discs you use them and what the problems are.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby daleh2013 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:58 am

Thanks for the replies...I'll be as descriptive as I can be. I'm having issues mostly with drivers...wide rimmed. If I do the standard 4 finger power grip with the base of the disc resting between the two palm pads (lifeline) I seem to stall everything and not have much spin. If I drop down to a three finger, base of the disc in the lifeline I get a little more spin but still a stall. Seems the best so far is a three finger with the base not touching the palm at all but resting on the pad of the palm just under the index and middle finger (RHBH)...but the downside is sometimes the disc slips and I get an early release that pushes the disc left. I have not tried a Bonapane grip; I was advised against it because I was told I wouldn't get the rip I need for a level flight.

I've read and re-read Blake's grip tutorial and must be missing something here...just can't seem to find something comfortable that will work.

Hopefully this is a little clearer than before.

Again, many thanks!

dale

Approach and putting grip are OK with me; I use a three finger fan and for putting I use an all finger fan (index along side of flight plate).
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby niq » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:46 pm

I think the bonapane grip is supposed to help with keeping the nose down, but at the expense of distance. Also, you can be getting nose-up flights because you're not transferring your weight far enough forward.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby JR » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:23 am

Your main issue sounds to be nose up throwing. Early slips are problematic for sure and tackier materials like FLX and medium Vibram rubber based discs for their first year help. They dry with age to as grippy as premium plastics from other companies. Some discs have grip enhancing shapes. Is Ching making the only drivers that have grooves/ridges? If you make a fist except leaving a tenth of an inch or so of an air canal in the middle and get the finger tips lining that canal and breath into the canal the skin is at body temperature in no time. You could spit or use a moist towel to further moisten the fingers and by rubbing the fingers together dissipating the excess you can have a tackier feel than with dry skin. Or you could catch dirt with the excess moisture and have sand paper like skin that can damage the disc. But the grip is awesome :-D

Nose up is the first issue for most players after pulling the arm straight is learned. There are several reasons for that. One is reaching back lower than the release point. Another is having the weight back=you lean away from the target so an arm pull that would be level if you were upright rises. The wrist may be in neutral position which means that with a lifeline grip the front of the disc higher than the rear. The wrist needs to be pushed down at the rip so that the disc is at least level with the ground. It is fine to raise the rear of the disc up to the innermost seam of the thumb.

Thin and short winged discs allow for a greater leverage of the fingers in the grip for a stronger grip. You may be able to throw as far with just shy of widest winged discs if they have great glide. Like Prodigy D3 or D4, Westside VIP King but most of them are flippy and tall high outer edge having ones are not. Gateway Slayer is fine from hearsay and one throw, Bolt is flippy for a 400' thrower but perhaps ok with less distance.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby Mark Ellis » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:37 am

niq wrote:I think the bonapane grip is supposed to help with keeping the nose down, but at the expense of distance. Also, you can be getting nose-up flights because you're not transferring your weight far enough forward.


I thought the Bonapane grip was designed by masochists to rip skin off fingers.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby JR » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:58 pm

Sissy :-D All kidding aside it can sting a lot and it takes a longer time to build up skin thickness and toughness with the Bonopane than regular grips. Only grenades feel worse for me and not by a lot. Raising the rear of the disc to the innermost joint of the thumb pushing the wrist down as much as possible made the craziest sound on Astroturf model 1 with a Z Pred when i tossed the disc with a level pec high pull and the disc crashed down 15' ahead of me thanks to the extreme nose down angle. PLONK!!!
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby daleh2013 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:15 pm

I'll admit I do think I'm having a "nose up" issue partially because of a grip issue but it also may very well be to another issue I've been dealing with that really was hammered home today after my rounds. Some years I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis in both ankles, shoulders, wrists and fingers. Got by with it so far; told by my doc the best thing to do is keep moving and enjoying things...like disc golf! Recently I started having issues with my knees; the RA is creeping up a little. Was told to wear braces on both knew to keep from over torqueing the joints. Today was my first day with the new braces...knees felt great...but, the lack of being able to get my weight over to my right size and not being able to torque the knee a little was quite evident. So now I'm faced with another thing to work through, that is to try and work with less weight shift and not leaving shots to the left. Ideas would be appreciated...more unstable discs so they flex right then back? More of a "finger" type grip to increase spin? I'm not about to stop playing so I'll do whatever I need to do...and yes, that includes practicing and making changes....

Thanks....
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby niq » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:58 pm

for me personally i struggled with grip for a long time (the disc would slip out of my hand no matter how hard i tried to clamp down on it). I tried a bunch of experiments with trying to grip earlier, different grips, etc... In the end, it was because I wasn't feeling the weight of the disc. I was trying to accelerate too early, too soon, so I was just completely guessing as to where i needed to tighten down. If you slow down, and feel the weight of the disc (the entire time) you shouldn't have a problem with the grip (when was the last time a forehand shot "slipped"?). You'll feel the disc getting heavier and heavier so it's basically second nature to just increase your grip strength at the proper time because of it.

Once you figure that out, you can then work on the nose-up issue.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby JR » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:29 am

I have FH slips all the time too :-D

None of the things Daleh mentioned in the previous post relate to aiming as much as what i wrote in my signature. It was written with all year round performance (aiming and consistency over power generation) in mind. There are more powerful ways of moving that in slippery conditions lead to left misses or slipping and sliding easier. I'd start with my signature as a starting point to getting the aiming right. If that does not help planting the final step with the foot pointed less away from the target helps too to counter the lesser speed of the steps and the lacking leg push. The number one thing is to turn toward the target so that the body does not point to the left because then you cannot aim at the target except with possibly a consistent grip lock. Form error to correct another one? Really... Sure you might lose power but that is the way with health problems anyway. I'd make sure you didn't also lose accuracy and consistency at shorter ranges too for a double damage. Nose up throwing kills distance too.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Grip and Hand Size

Postby daleh2013 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:42 pm

Well JR you may have helped me more than you know....I'll be better able to tell you after tomorrow since Monday evening is one of my dg days. Because I can't seem to get around and torque my knee any more I'll try and open my plant (right) foot up a little to see if it helps. The other thing I am going to try and do is change my runup a little. The idea occurred to me as I read your last post...actually it's your footnote about hyzers, anhyzers and flat (straight ) shots. I'm wondering, and testing is the only way to be sure is that maybe I have gotten so used to do a back right to front left runup and planting m foot to the left of the center line that I've overdone it and I'm pushing everything left because of the lack of torque. What I'm going to do is try and do a straight plant but put just enough angle on my disc to do a controlled flex.

We shall see and I will post my findings tomorrow evening. In the mean time though thank you for at least giving me a couple of things to at least check on. I'll also try my best to keep the disc nose down to get as much as I can out of the flight.
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