FTT's Bag

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FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:51 pm

iacas wrote:
Fightingthetide wrote:JR - is the King understable? High dome, high PLH sounds like it would be a beefy. I'm intrigued by the King. Does it move too much laterally or fade too soon to be useful?

The King, in my experience, does not match up with the stated flight ratings at all. It's farther off than any other disc I've thrown. I use it for backhand rollers or hyzer flips that I throw with a BIG hyzer angle.


Good to know. Any reason it wouldn't be a contender for max distance? I wasn't sure if it fell out too soon because of how wide the rim is.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby discmonkey42 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:21 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:JR - is the King understable? High dome, high PLH sounds like it would be a beefy. I'm intrigued by the King. Does it move too much laterally or fade too soon to be useful?

discmonkey - with the Trespass, which plastic are you throwing and how much dome does yours have? Just curious if they come in domier variants or not. I hear a lot about their glide, but also about how they are generally pretty flat...not sure how flat = glide. Anyway, just curious because I have zero experience with them, and the only one I picked up in a store was flat so I passed it by.


I carry a few. The 172 opto is the flattest and the most likely to turn. I also carry a 175 biofuzion has a bit more dome but I don't notice that it has more glide. The third one I carry is a Glass Blown Open fuzion and has the most dome of the 4 I carry. It is also more overstable than the first two. Not a ton more overstable, but it does start to fade a bit earlier in its flight when thrown flat. It also doesn't flip up as easily as the first two. The most overstable is a hybrid EMac. This one also has some dome to it. I don't pick which one to throw based on a difference in glide, though, it's strictly a matter of stability, wind, and the line I want to throw. I'll probably stop carrying the biofuzion as it doesn't cover any lines the other 3 can't handle. I throw the flat opto the most by far, and it's consistently the longest of the four in my field work. Not sure if that's because it is the most seasoned or if I'm most familiar with it. If you like a little dome, I'd try a fuzion or hybrid. I wouldn't call any of them "domey" though (not as domey as a tern, more domey than an olf if that helps). It's actually one of the things I like about them as I prefer flat discs overall.

I've never thrown them, but the guys I play with say they are very similar to the first run star destroyers they all love so much. Not sure how accurate that is, but it may help you decide whether to try one or not.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby iacas » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:09 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:Good to know. Any reason it wouldn't be a contender for max distance? I wasn't sure if it fell out too soon because of how wide the rim is.

It can work for max D in my experience. Just gotta give it a good amount of hyzer to let it get the S-curve without burning.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:00 pm

Most Kings are flat low PLH rollers so only for beginning power level people for normal use. VIP high dome high PLH Kings are several notches more overstable meaning at full power i get 3 degrees of turn from my 165 and 5 from my 167. Both are dark blue. So it is obvious that Kings vary a lot. Even the high PLH domey ones don't take much headwind and fade pretty late and it took a Vulcan to get another speed 13 (Innova rating) to get as little LSS from a warp speeder. Because of the great glide it needs less power than Nukes and Bosses so they are forgiving in that. The power need is lower than a Wraith fading as much. Of course to get a Wraith to fade as little it needs to fly almost or 400' but the King fades later and gets to 400' with less oomph thanks to the lesser drag, way better glide and later fade. Unless there is a lot of wind the King is ok if supported by better wind handling discs. Alone it is not HSS enough IMO for general purpose all year round all weather use. As a workhorse distance driver it is great especially if you don't break 400' with speed 13 discs.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:23 am

Thanks everyone. I'll pick up a flattish Trespass and a domey King and see which wins out.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:22 pm

Even domey Kings vary a lot by PLH thus HSS and LSS. So you need to confirm against flat ones that the PLH is higher and if you see different domey Kings in VIP (never seen a domey TP) pick up the one with the highest outer edge. Of course there is tuning and since the PLH varies wildly and the stability changes quickly with PLH height in Kings the tuning can make the disc look like a completely different disc in flight. Which by the way is the case with factory spec discs so who could call you out on that? Of course the best thing is if you can find a high PLH domey VIP King.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:14 pm

I'm fine with tuning a King, but I don't want to rely on a disc that I can't easily replace (says the guy with two 11x Teebirds in his bag). Regardless, I'll see if I can hunt down a good one.

With DD plastics, is it basically Fuzion = Gold Line and Lucid = Opto? And with BioFuzion in the mix, is there a general trend in stability between the three plastics for the Trespass?
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby discmonkey42 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:33 pm

Fightingthetide wrote:I'm fine with tuning a King, but I don't want to rely on a disc that I can't easily replace (says the guy with two 11x Teebirds in his bag). Regardless, I'll see if I can hunt down a good one.

With DD plastics, is it basically Fuzion = Gold Line and Lucid = Opto? And with BioFuzion in the mix, is there a general trend in stability between the three plastics for the Trespass?


Opto = Lucid, Fuzion = Gold line, BioFuzion is recycled Gold line. There are a few "hybrid" or "glopto" discs out there. For the Trespass those are the Emac signature white discs and some of the Dyemax white discs. Opto tends to be the least stable, Fuzion more stable, hybrid is the most stable. If grip is a concern, I think the opto has the best grip of the bunch, but the hybrid feels great too.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:11 am

Thanks! What weights are you throwing? I know stability is highly dependent upon PLH, and I've been hearing the lighter Lucids are pretty flippy (not the Lucid Air). Wasn't sure if you could speak into whether that was true.

Here's a post I came across at DGCR that I thought was a little helpful here. Not sure if I entirely understand what he is saying by "not a true flip", but it kept me from pulling the trigger on a 167 Lucid Trespass online. His max distance is the same as mine.

I cannot throw the Trespass under 171g; it turns and turns and only gets about 60 to 70% of my normal distance before ditching into the ground. It flips a little, so with the right hyzer angle you can straighten it out, but since it is not a true flip, it is nearly impossible to replicate the necessary angle; too much and it simply hyzers out like any other driver, not enough and again it goes right. Since it is not a true flip, it also does not unintentionally turn into a roller; it will land flat, just way off to the right.

However, I can get 171+ to come out of that turn long enough to fight forward. 174+, especially in the Lucids, I can get dead straight with minimal turn. The problem is, that underpowering these heavier weights really kicks in the LSS, while underpowering the 160s at least keeps them going forward.

In essence I see two completely different discs between these two weight ranges. I have thrown 10 different Trespasses and my two favorites are a 175g Lucid and a 174 Bio-Fuzion. The Bio can outdistance the Fuzion by 10-15 feet, but the Lucid can handle more flaw in the throw and still get my maximum distance (390-420).

As for the comparison to a Destroyer, I absolutely hate this comparison. I know it all comes down to technique and power generation, thus everyone is going to get different results. I have a fairly accurate 400 maximum drive, but the problem is that I am not able to simply rear back and just rip one longer. 400 is my ceiling no matter how I throw. I fight with the Destroyer, nearly 90-100% power and with a giant sky S to get the Destroyer out to 400. I can throw at my normal 85-90% power (basically controlled and not reckless abandon) and I have been routinely hitting 390-410 with hitting 420 with more frequency on a flat and aimed release.

If anything, with my release, I compare light Trespasses more to Champ Katanas and heavy Trespasses to seasoned Star Bosses.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby discmonkey42 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:47 am

The Lucid I throw is 172. The others are all 174-175. I don't know that I'd go lighter than 170 ish only because I don't see a need. Into a mild headwind a bit of hyzer is needed. No wind or tail wind and a flat to very slight anny throw gives me the results I want. I've thrown the 172 into moderate winds with no issues, but I'm not sure how lighter than that would stand up. I've always preferred to go heavier and season the disc instead of going lighter which always seems to amplify any throwing errors or wind. I haven't thrown Katanas or Bosses for comparison.
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FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:15 pm

Still have yet to get out and find a Trespass and King. Thanks to all for the help.

Thinking of auditioning Z Predators in place of my flat Champ Firebird. I think I'll like the extra versatility.

Any thoughts? Here's what I have in my bag right now:

Champ/Star Wraith x2 - overstable, understable
11x Champ Teebird x2 - overstable, stable
Champ Leopard - understable
Rancho Roc x2 - stable, neutral
SM Roc - understable
Champ Rhyno
Zero Pure x2
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby JR » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:33 am

No fast wind beaters in there. Like a Force.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:26 am

JR wrote:No fast wind beaters in there. Like a Force.


Okay. I figure a Force would pair well with a Trespass. If I added those two and dropped Wraiths (for overlap), I'm stuck on what other drivers to throw because that would leave a huge gap between speed 12 and my Teebirds. Adding another mold to fill that gap seems like overkill to me.

And I love my 11x Teebirds...haha
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Stringbean » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:25 am

Just throw a P-PD in the mix and you should be good to go.
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Re: FTT's Bag

Postby Fightingthetide » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:10 pm

Stringbean wrote:Just throw a P-PD in the mix and you should be good to go.


I was thinking of something along those lines.

I'm selling a few. Gonna try Force, Trespass, PD, TD, Teebird, Pred for drivers.

My beat 11x Champ and DX Teebirds cover 90% of what a Leopard can do, so it feels worth it to pull Leo's. I had both in my bag for a few weeks and found myself going between the two interchangeably.

Trades/Selling: viewtopic.php?t=26139
Last edited by Fightingthetide on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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