Body position at start of x-step

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Body position at start of x-step

Postby KRooster » Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:24 pm

I always have one step leading into the x-step when driving backhand. I start with my chest facing left, with my right shoulder pointing towards the target, and my head is turned to the right to look at the target over my right shoulder.

However, I've been watching a lot of videos of pros driving lately (tournament coverage). It seems that all of them start with their their chest facing the target, or mostly facing the target. With their lead-in step and the first step of the x-step, they rotate their body left, so that they turn from facing the target to facing left in those two steps.

I'm wondering if anyone knows a disadvantage to starting with the chest facing left, rather than facing towards the basket.

This season I came back to disc golf after a 3 year hiatus, and kind of had to re-learn everything. I think I used to start with my chest facing the basket years ago, but I can't remember. Right now I'm annoyed that my distance is lower than it was 3 years ago and I'm struggling with off-axis torque, but my accuracy has been great.
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby JR » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:02 am

Force equals mass times acceleration in physics. Timing and acceleration can vary with different body position stances. The farther you throw your weight back with the body in the reach back the longer the reach back and the larger the force required to stop that backward rotation is. So not starting facing the body left i have little practical knowledge but in theory you might tire yourself out less and have the muscles loose until the body starts to turn toward the target. Meaning with the muscles firing with less compromised effort not needing to reverse so much momentum allowing possibly a greater turning power to the right. Sounds plausible enough to test over time. There might not be a lot of difference and even if there was not it makes much more sense to a touring pro competing often for a living and in long tournaments with multiple rounds to spare all the energy you can. Stress will add up over time and Climo and Avery have said in interviews that they are trashed after a season.

Sorry that i lack experience on this and could not be of more help. I'd test both ways.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby seabas22 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:49 pm

Facing the target more at the start of the x-step creates more core torque/winding up/back later. At the plant of the front heel is when you should hit the top of your backswing where you can't turn any further back and you have no choice but start turning back forward after your weight moves into the front leg. If you start the x-step in a more backward position chances are you start turning forward early before your weight transfer to the front leg and don't really load/wind up the core into/against the rear leg.
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby itlnstln » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:00 am

seabas22 wrote:Facing the target more at the start of the x-step creates more core torque/winding up/back later. At the plant of the front heel is when you should hit the top of your backswing where you can't turn any further back and you have no choice but start turning back forward after your weight moves into the front leg. If you start the x-step in a more backward position chances are you start turning forward early before your weight transfer to the front leg and don't really load/wind up the core into/against the rear leg.


This. It pains me to see people run up almost backwards already reaching back. It looks so inefficient (not to mention awkward as hell).
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby JR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:54 am

I think plyometric loading and unloading of the core and weight shift play a lot here. If the core muscles are stretched out in the maximum point of reach back when the plant step hits the ground you're good. You can only snap upper body back to neutral automatically accelerating the disc faster without moving the arm at all so that the front of the disc comes to the left side. Allowing new muscles (like the arm that is asleep until now) to fire later on to allow for more acceleration and exit speed which is nice in terms of physics. Because f=ma. A being acceleration.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby KRooster » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:23 pm

itlnstln wrote:
seabas22 wrote:Facing the target more at the start of the x-step creates more core torque/winding up/back later. At the plant of the front heel is when you should hit the top of your backswing where you can't turn any further back and you have no choice but start turning back forward after your weight moves into the front leg. If you start the x-step in a more backward position chances are you start turning forward early before your weight transfer to the front leg and don't really load/wind up the core into/against the rear leg.


This. It pains me to see people run up almost backwards already reaching back. It looks so inefficient (not to mention awkward as hell).


I think this intuitively makes sense to me on some level. I recall that I used to have an easier time getting the timing of the rip correctly spaced after the plant foot, the tempo just felt natural, whereas right now when I start sideways to the target it's difficult to get that tempo down because I'm not sure when I should end the reachback and start rotating forward. Also I think my reachback has been pretty weak lately, and just from practicing the motion it seems like there is more momentum into the reachback when you start facing the target. Can't wait to get to the field to try this.
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Re: Body position at start of x-step

Postby itlnstln » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:57 am

One thing that will occasionally trip me up is not rotating 180 deg. away from the target at the reach back. Many times this is due to facing up too much during the run up. I have to face up as my first step is forward with my left foot (I throw RHBH) then I step with the right, and so on. If by my second step I'm not 90 deg. from the target, I tend to shank right or strong arm due to lack of hip rotation. This weekend, I toyed around with starting a bit closer to 90 deg. from the target and it helped get a few things under control. I think the big key is not reaching back too early (and subsequently staying in a reach back position). Reaching back and pulling in, basically, one motion helps load the hips like a spring (sort of) and creates a smooth momentum and weight shift during the throw.
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