Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

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Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby rhatton2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:55 am

Right, please rip into me.

Drives below - it's the first time I've filmed any in 3 years and have hardly played at all for over a year due to babyitis.

I knew my form had got bad (the distance and accuracy had been telling me this) but i hadn't realised quite how bad until I saw these played back.

First lot are standing drives with Rocs and a Stratus to around 60 - 75 meters. The next ones are with Bosses which once upon a time I could throw 110 - 120 meters in a straight line but nowadays the longest here was around 95 (the orange one), there had been a couple of longer ones in the set before but i managed to not turn the camera on.

For me I am getting no shoulder pause ( i could feel the lack of it as I was throwing yet couldn't work out how to get it in so any tips would be greatfully accepted.) I seem to be rotating and spinning the shoulder around instead of lateral movement across the body, meaning there is little to no elbow stop/elbow chop and lower arm whip. My xstep is weird to say the least, more sort of a dancey hop, the last step which felt big whilst I was doing it is tiny, i'm getting hardly any weight shift and i'm pretty sure i'm starting the pull way too early, the hips are spinning rather than pulling. I feel like I'm bouncing/hopping through at the end too much as well and not letting the shot flow. At the end of this I pulled a muscle in my back as well which is killing me now as I sit here typing!! Bad day all round!

I still haven't even begun to manage to link up the good work I've done with Brad Walkers closed shoulder snap drill and the right pec drill into a proper throw, i can't even properly work these into a standing throw. Doing both of those without any other movements works well - putters out to 60 meters on dead straight lines with little to no reachback. then I add other movement and this monstrosity occurs. I meant to film those two bits as well but then pulled the muscle and called it a day. I'm afraid only being able to get out to practise once a month probably doesn't help, it's just so frustrating as I have been there before and i know when i was throwing (relatively) big it was easy and effortless, I just wish I could find it again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFlfIV9QAek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjaJQfhh ... e=youtu.be

EDITXXX

SLO Mo drives attached: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CePE4Hey ... e=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSID0Mly ... e=youtu.be


Thoughts? aside from start from scratch all over again :9( - i'm getting too old and inflexible to do that many more times!
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby seabas22 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:56 pm

You are throwing your weight/spine over your front leg instead of transferring the spine/weight against the front leg and then throwing.

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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby rhatton2 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:14 am

So I need to be doing the hip thrust Dave Feldberg talks about rather than the upper body coming over the top?

The more i watch the video the more it makes sense what you've said, thanks SeaBass. Explains the stupid follow through I'm doing and why I'm not getting that shoulder pause as the disc/arm has no room to go across me before the shoulders turn again, at least that's how I'm understanding it. Was there anything else glaringly obvious?

Edit * This is very good, i'm f*cking around in the office whilst the video is playing - fortunately no on else is here! - and trying to brace the weight against the right side - I am sure this was the same feeling I used to get when throwing well - the feeling I have been missing for a looooong time.

Edit** two things that have struck me - 1. my form was destroyed by trying to drive ever further and further - this seems to be the likely culprit that instead of getting this tension I was just starting to throw my body at it losing other mechanics in the process - does that sound sensible?

2. Would it make sense that I can still throw big anhyzers, as I lean back slightly for these and that would naturally shove my hip out more and keep the body weight slightly back. ( My anhyzers go further than you would expect in comparison to the normal form - not just created by the flight path)
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby Bagger Blakehill » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:08 am

Hey Rich! I see you took to the forum for advice too :)

I know I'm probably a little new to be giving feedback however I've been watching so many different videos recently (both tutorials and general tournament coverages) I felt there was one thing that really stood out for me... You seem to be so focued on your 'pause' that you're almost stalling your entire movements and therefore losing so much momemtum that you're almost performing a standing throwing.

Regards
Nick
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby rhatton2 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:43 am

Yup, thought it was about time to film myself again and see what was going wrong.

Over the last couple of years there has been a deliberate attempt to slow down everything in order to try to get it all working together however I hadn't realised whilst actually throwing that I was almost running through the first steps and then stopping into the last, this I am pretty sure isn't something I was just doing on these drives either, it's something that i've definitely been doing on the course as well and just looks like a massive waste of energy and added complexicity at the start of the throw - I may as well just do a one step into it until I get that transition sorted.
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby seabas22 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:31 am

Yup, yup, yup, and yup. :wink:
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby JR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:00 am

Actually dancing up and down hopping steps are great and they are used to great effect by disc golfers, Steve Brinster being the extreme case, parkour guys and cats falling down and transferring the up to down movement into a forward bounce saving them from busted hips, muscles and joints.

Your upper arm was locked in a single position relative to the torso which prevented you from getting the elbow forward killing the snap. Compounded by the lack of the shoulder pause coming from spinning out too early with the right leg in the plant step from not tightening the right leg muscles hard to stop the leg in place relative to the ground for a while. Which allows you to push the right hip bones laterally at the target -not spinning but sliding back to front along the center line of the tee- which in turn allows the shoulder pause that removes the big time rounding you do with the disc. The disc should be pulled in a straight line and the best way to practice quickly is to stand close to a wall pulling the disc across your chest from a full reach back to the arm pointing straight at the target by keeping the disc a centimeter off the wall and another off of your chest. The arm will hurt soon in field practice from the added snap when you convert to that form after a pause because the plyometric loading and unloading stretch and shake the muscles and tendons so hard. But you can gain 15 meters in an instant when you get that clicking.

Edit: i forgot to mention that the elbow should be punched forward by moving the whole arm from the shoulder socket back to front during the pause.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby rhatton2 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:32 am

Hi JR,

Do you think it would help to take a longer last step (not a giant step just so it goes out maybe a foot beyond my right shoulder)- to me it looks like it might force my body into a few of these things that the tiny step I'm taking doesn't - for a start it would be a lot harder to spin around this plant step and would encourage me to move the weight laterally past.

I have done your stand against a wall drill before but not for many years (last time was probably when the drive was going well!) - it's one of the things I coach other people to do with good success so should probably listen to my own advice! it's very frustrating to see rounding has crept back in as this was one of the best step forwards i ever took - as soon as I eliminated rounding last time and got a straight line pull it put 15 meters on my drive and led to much greater consistency - it's the key thing I try to teach to all new starters and here i am doing it myself :D That at least should be fairly easy to get rid of again.

I genuinely thought until I saw these videos that I was getting a lateral hip thrust, again this is something I have been banging on at others about to try to get out of the spinning habit that seems to be rife over here in the UK and to actually start driving rather than pirouetting - it's amazing the difference between what you think you're doing and what you're actually doing in reality! I evidently need to film myself a lot more!

It looks to me like i've destroyed it myself by throwing my upper body weight at the target leading to spinning in turn leading to rounding and killing all the good stuff that had been there.

More fieldwork more filming to come!
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Re: Rip into me. help gratefully accepted!

Postby JR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:11 am

Plant step length and momentum from the steps and left leg push need to be matched always so the plant step length needs to change to longer with more speed. The gauges for a proper plant step length are the ability to shift the weight forward, getting the front of the disc down and how far the disc goes. Which is related to power generation, nose down angle and apex height of the throw. The faster the disc flies and the more the front of the disc is down the higher the apex height needs to be. Naturally with higher apexes the LSS of the disc comes to play too so you need to have enough spin on the disc to avoid too early fades. Or getting a less fading disc or throwing an s-curve.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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