Just want to make sure...

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Just want to make sure...

Postby fusan » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:15 pm

Hi Guys

I have been working this summer on getting close to the chest and keep a straight horizontal line. Its a proces but Im getting there.

I just want to make sure...
Am I strong arming it?
Do I transfer to much weight instead of rotating more with legs and hips?
Here are two videos, judge for yourself if Im right...





Ohh and one last question...
How the f... do you add those youtube videos directly here???
Last edited by fusan on Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby JR » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:47 am

Dropping the s from https and pasting the rest of the link in between the brackets that appear after you click the youtube button should help.

It is not easy to say for sure from slo mo vids if a person is strong arming if it is not extreme. I don't think you have that problem. You could get the elbow a couple of inches forward before straightening the elbow but you are way better in that than most already.

You are very Feldberg like in keeping the head away from the target. That loses you an aiming method that is looking at the target. Not everyone can throw so that looking at the target before the rip does not change the hyzer angle. One needs a limber neck to disassociate the weight of the head from the lower body. A free loose neck movement with a wide movement range is required to throw cleanly with flat shots. Mild hyzers are possible but even with my limber neck i cannot pull off clean steep hyzers if i look at the target. Think of golfers and their angles and how they need to not look at the target until the shoulders turn the head at the target well in the follow through. That is a requirement for most only with steeper hyzers less severe angles can be pulled off cleanly.

Your left leg usage is off. In order to push all the momentum into the disc one needs to counter the elbow chop and body rotation to the right as per Newton saying for every reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction. One way is to keep the left leg on the ground which you did not accomplish. The other is to kick the leg in the same plane as the shoulders are assuming your arm is at an 90 degree angle to the body for the longest possible arm lever=wider arc and more power generation for fastest possible speed on the disc. Your left leg lifted up with the weight shift forward. In the Feldy kick method the left leg needs to move faster forward and to the right of the body to counter the elbow chop and hip and shoulders turning. That means that the leg stays at a constant height moving back to front and left to right in a flat shot.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby fusan » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:11 am

Yes i have noticed a lack of precision lately. This started when i began to pull the disc close to the chest. If it has somthing to do with turning my head away from the target to soon. I dont know, but
It is worth trying to keep it longer on target.

I think that im pushing to much foreward with my rear leg instead of pushing to the right and rotate the hips instead and keeping the foot in the ground longer so that it is still pushing when i release the disc.
I think thats what you mean by "kick the leg in the same plane as the shoulders", right?
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby seabas22 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:08 pm

I think your swing is ok, but your footwork ain't great like JR is saying with the rear leg. Your weight transfer is not really going through front leg, it's going over it instead. Keep your rear knee/hip flexed more and the front knee more behind the foot. Watch the position of the front knee and foot, the front knee stays behind the front foot in these guys, where your front knee goes past the front foot. That's a leverage leak.

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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby fusan » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:47 am

Hi Seabass
I think what you mean is to keep my frontleg stiff/firm once it is on the ground. I can see that I slide foreward a little because I push/stretch the rear leg
instead of kick right behind to propel the hips, and shoulders. The lack of shoulderturn is very clear now that I look at the video of the pros. They are a lot
more rotated at the release, while Im actually square (90 deg) with the shoulders.
So Ill try to firm up the front leg and bend the knee of the rearleg towards the frontleg in order to rotate the hips. Is that correct?
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby JR » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:23 am

I have an injured back and cannot twist the hips much at all and Feldy has all manner of injuries as well. I cannot say from experience if the pivot hop step makes twisting the hips right of neutral and don't know if Feldy not doing much of that comes from the technique or injuries. I also have no idea if others can twist the hips effectively with the pivot hop step. It can be done with the left leg being on the ground during the rip.

The left leg kick with a flat shot has the shoulders in horizontal level so the left leg below the knee should be horizontal too. So that it matches the elbow movement. So the left knee, shin and ankle should be at the same height as the right knee and the kick should put the left knee to or to the right of the right knee. Have you seen The Champions Way DVD where Feldy shows where the left leg goes in the kick? Youtube works too. The EO video has Feldy throw a hyzer and still the left leg does not kick above the right knee at the rip.

Regarding the head position there are two times when the head can face the target enough for you to allow to see it and aim visually. The first is turning into the reach back and the other is in the end of the pause and later. You can turn the head ahead of the body to the right at the right pec position and as long as the head leads the body the weight of the head does not slow down the body rotation much. If the head turned at the same pace as the body the muscles in the legs, hips and shoulders need to turn the weight of the head right. The weight of the head pushing down from gravity stays the same in both ways.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby fusan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:27 am

JR

I have no clue if the pivot step will contrubite to the hip rotataion or not. Havent tried it that much. Ive been buisy with keeping the disc close to the
pec and not focusing on other aspects of the throw. You are right about keeping the left foot on the ground at the rip.
I do understand that the left knee, shin and ankle must be in straight line with the right knee or a little right of it, after the release and that it is an
advantage to keep the eyes on target as long as possible.

Sometimes its a little hard to understand you becuse you know all of the terms and have a deep understainding of the mechanics. You talk on another
level and Im just no there yet. Also when you throw out your explainations above I try to link them to what Im asking and it doesent make much sence to
me if you talk about somthing else (pivot steps and headturn) when I expect an more concrete answer on how to change my footwork. I have to take one
thing at a time, Im not a woman :)
You are also very focused on what to do in your explainations, but sometimes you forget to tell how to do it. A drill mayby or somthing similar.

I think my problem is that I push to much with my right leg, like Seabass mention, instead of turning the left knee to the front in order to turn the
hips and keeping the weight a more centered. This cause all the weight on the front leg and the ability to rotate on the heel is allmost impossible. Thats why I think that the front leg should be more firm so the rotation happens a little more behind it.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby JR » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:27 am

I tried to describe what the positions are so sorry that you had not enough help from that description. The way to drill the positiions is to see them in real time by getting into those positions and stopping while standing infron of a large mirror. When you have several body parts moving into different positions it is good to strike two consectutive poses then backing up to the first one and figuring out what to do to get to the next step. Getting the idea of correct timing is easier when you strike poses of different phases of the throw.

So please ask for clarifications on what you do not understand and i will try to explain in a different way.

You will pivot automatically with the right heel if you first stop it in place relative to the tee. When enough weight shift occurs you will turn right pivoting on the right heel provided you have enough momentum plus left leg push. It is harder to avoid the heel pivot than to perform it. I can avoid the heel pivot using all of my right leg length going only at slow speeds and not pushing hard with the left leg.

You asked a lot in asking for findings in the video. That is why i commented on many things. Like where to point the head. Delaying the eyes turning away is half of the situation. The other half is reacquiring the target visually before the disc rips. The head has to be actively turned right of neutral position from about the right pec position to allow for focused sight and time to aim. The eyes need to be turned as far right as possible at the right pec position.
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby fusan » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:01 am

JR

Thanks for the advice about the positions and the mirror. Ill have to try it.
About pivoting automatically, I didnt succed with that yet, but I hope it will be better when I change the footwork.

Dont get me wrong, I appreciate it very much that you take the time to help others get better, but like I said, it is not allways easy to understand
what you mean. I wanted to know if Im pushing to much foreward with the rear leg and if the solution is to keep a firm frontleg and rotate the rearleg.
Thats all I asked.
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Re: Just want to make sure...

Postby JR » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:43 pm

You got more than you asked for har har. Some would say that being so weight forward slows down the body rotation but there is also a positive thing. The front of the disc drops lower the more you lean forward. There are other ways to drop the nose of the disc that do not sacrifice power generation. I do not see your weight shift to be a problem in a windy country where low flat throws help the placement and add consistency due to more wind protection.

You are correct about not working on many things at a time but give the other suggestions a try later. You never know if you might like the results. If not nothing ventured nothing lost. What's a little time invested in testing?
Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.
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